Libya headed for civil war? Update: Gadhafi dead - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

burn_this_city · 02-21-2011, 03:26 PM

Careful, some folks around here to don't take too kindly to those sorts of implications.

blankall · 02-21-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by La Flames Fan

This is kind of the problem though...the West keeps propping up these dictatorships which benefit the West and no one else. The people suffer, corruption is rampant and for what? Oil? Resources? Army Bases? Torture centres? Money, money, money?

The people want Gadhafi gone, they, like the Egyptians, want a democratically elected president. They deserve that...it's high time the West stops dictating who will lead and who will not.

The days of dictatorships are hopefully coming to an end.

I wouldn't go as far to say the West has "propped up" Gadhafi. The USA had pretty stringent economic sanctions placed on Lybia until 2004.

What occured after 2004 was more of a normalization of relations, but I wouldn't describe it as "propping up" in any way, shape, or form

burn_this_city · 02-21-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall

I wouldn't go as far to say the West has "propped up" Gadhafi. The USA had pretty stringent economic sanctions placed on Lybia until 2004.

What occured after 2004 was more of a normalization of relations, but I wouldn't describe it as "propping up" in any way, shape, or form

Thats true, but one has to wonder why the sudden warming of relations. I think $4/gallon of gas had something to do with it.

Ducay · 02-21-2011, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Thats true, but one has to wonder why the sudden warming of relations. I think $4/gallon of gas had something to do with it.

Or perhaps it had something to do with them suspending their nuclear ambitions and other evil policies in exchange for reduced sanctions and getting their country off the US' poopoo list.

But no, that's not sensationalist enough, its all about the oil!!!11

T@T · 02-21-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Yeah I read that too, they were killing protestors in funeral processions with high powered rifles. It sounds like the eastern tribes are in full revolt and things in Tripoli are getting tense with protestors taking to the streets.

A lady in Libya was saying the military were in helicopters with machine guns firing down at the crowds, and a doctor confirmed over 200 deaths from bullet wounds either on the top of heads or threw the shoulders into the chest.

Unreal.

killer_carlson · 02-21-2011, 07:35 PM

My biggest concern is that someone decides that in the unstability that is:

Tunisa
Egypt
Libya
Yemen
Bahrain
Jordan
Iran
Lebanon

that someone decides now would be a good time to provoke the Israelis. Israel would respond with definitive and devastating action (as per their normal practice) which could unfortunately cause one of these unstable countries to distract the domestic populace with one of the time tested rallying cries for the region: Go Get Israel.

I fear that this could really escalate violence in the region.

Pinner · 02-21-2011, 07:53 PM

Blows my mind how young the populations of those countries are.

I wonder if the hatred for Israel is as strong in the younger generation ?

Population map.

Tyler · 02-21-2011, 07:58 PM

Let's hope so. I'm enjoying the comfort of watching these governments topple from the comfort of my first world living room

burn_this_city · 02-21-2011, 08:43 PM

If nothing else, I hope the changes in the region force the Israelis to end the ongoing Palestinian saga. Either a 2 state solution or a 1 state solution I don't care, just find a solution that is fair to everyone.

Sidney Crosby's Hat · 02-21-2011, 09:08 PM

Just don't build them a bomb made out of pinball machine parts!

GirlySports · 02-21-2011, 09:13 PM

Here's an ignorant question...

Mubarak ruled for 30 years, toppled in 3 weeks.
Gaddafi ruled for 40 years, pretty much toppled in a week.

If it was this easy, what took so long?

burn_this_city · 02-21-2011, 09:23 PM

For the most part it was a domino effect after watching Ben Ali's regime fall.

This has been brewing for a while, previous generations didnt have the tools to get everyone out protesting. The big thing was the explosion of the internet and social media. It was just a matter of time before an incident occured that everyone would rally around. In Tunisia it was an educated young fruit seller who lit himself on fire. In Egypt it was the events in Tunisia and Khaled Said's brutal beating to death after filming corrupt cops dealing drugs. Libyans saw the success on either side of them and realized the impossible was possible.

Caged Great · 02-21-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Here's an ignorant question...

Mubarak ruled for 30 years, toppled in 3 weeks.
Gaddafi ruled for 40 years, pretty much toppled in a week.

If it was this easy, what took so long?

The amount of youth in each of those countries was not as prolific as it is now. Over 60% of each of these countries are under the age of 30. For years, the leaders would pander only to the older people, pretty much neglecting the wishes of the youth.

I would have never guessed that it would only take 3 weeks or less in at least two countries, and possibly Libya as well, but with the proliferation of technology among the younger population, it really helps to coordinate things.

CrusaderPi · 02-21-2011, 09:33 PM

If I was a third world dictator the first thing I'd do is cut power, except to my palace of course. Try tweeting up revolution with no electricity.

PS: If anyone has any contacts, I'm available for consulting work.

afc wimbledon · 02-21-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Here's an ignorant question...

Mubarak ruled for 30 years, toppled in 3 weeks.
Gaddafi ruled for 40 years, pretty much toppled in a week.

If it was this easy, what took so long?

Coming up with facebook and twitter.

GirlySports · 02-21-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Coming up with facebook and twitter.

But facebook and twitter has been around a few years.
We saw it in the Iran uprising in 2008.

So if a kid had burned himself 5 years ago, 10 years ago, it wouldn't have worked?

-----

Mubarak, Gadhafi, I thought these dictators were tough and ruthless!!!!!

afc wimbledon · 02-21-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

But facebook and twitter has been around a few years.
We saw it in the Iran uprising in 2008.

So if a kid had burned himself 5 years ago, 10 years ago, it wouldn't have worked?

-----

Mubarak, Gadhafi, I thought these dictators were tough and ruthless!!!!!

I think it has taken longer for the technology to saturate the areas, Iran was always a bit more advanced than N Africa.

CrusaderPi · 02-21-2011, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I think it has taken longer for the technology to saturate the areas, Iran was always a bit more advanced than N Africa.

Ouch. You never want to be on that end of a comparison with Iran. Probably reason enough for them to revolt.

afc wimbledon · 02-21-2011, 10:39 PM

The question is does Saudi follow?

Yeah_Baby · 02-21-2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Here's an ignorant question...

Mubarak ruled for 30 years, toppled in 3 weeks.
Gaddafi ruled for 40 years, pretty much toppled in a week.

If it was this easy, what took so long?

The demonstration effect in Tunisia set off a powder keg. Much like how the American Revolution led to the French Revolution