Acupuncture- Real or B.S.

[Ashartus]

I guess it depends on whether by acupuncture you mean as it is normally practiced, based on some sort of mystical energy patterns in the body, or whether you mean sticking needles into somebody could have an effect. If the former, then it's complete BS. If the latter - photon's post summed it up pretty well.

[BigBrodieFan]

One of my girlfriends is getting acupuncture because she has been trying to get pregnant for over 3 years now. She and her husband have tried everything, including various expensive medical procedures and they've had no luck. She thinks this will work. The power of suggestion knows no boundaries.. but I am skeptical.

[dissentowner]

So the consensus is that it is in the mind, not the treatment.

[GrrlGoalie33]

I was a complete non-believer of it when I had it done the first time. My wife and physio (we see the same physio) basically forced me to sit through a treatment for reoccurring knee pain.

I am now a believer of it in helping my chronic knee pain

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by Buff

My wife does acupuncture and I would say that it works. However like any other sort of treatment, what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another person.

She gave acupuncture to her cousin to help him stop smoking and it worked. He hated the taste of cigarettes. However it didn't stop her dad from being so stubborn and he kept on smoking.

I've been her practice dummy, and I've injured myself on many occasions (not intentionally) to give her even more practice. I've recently been having back pain, and acupuncture has helped. It has even helped me with headaches and colds. I had a knee problem for over a year that acupuncture didn't really help me with. I did feel pain relief, but I don't think the acupuncture helped make the problem go away, rest and proper exercises that she gave me is what solved that problem.

It's not supposed to be able to fix your knee, just help alleviate the pain while you get it fixed via rehab/rest or whatever. As for the smoking thing, if the Dad refused to believe in the treatment and even sounds like he didn't really want to quit he never will and no treatment in the world will work, whereas the cousin who hated the cigarettes wanted it to work and it was just a way for him to take that first step to quitting.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by Sliver

A cold? How on earth is accupuncture going to help rid you of a virus? That's preposterous.

I think he might mean that it helped with the cold symptoms?

[CarlW]

I think that if you went to a real acupuncturist that knew what they were doing, that It can help alleviate pain issues. But what most people fail to understand is that it usually isn't a cure but in most cases is a temporary measure. Though I suppose most modern acupuncturists reap the monetary benefits of long term clients this way.

[scotty2hotty]

Your body is first and foremost a sense (afferent) and process organism. It does this via the nervous system through sight, smell, sound, taste and touch.

The vast majority of your afferent receptors are located in your skin.

It would be ridiculous to postulate that inserting needles into the skin has no effect. It most certainly does.

The issue arises in debating whether the procedure has:
a) a predictable response
b) the response generated has any meaningful benefits

Of course, the human nervous system is mind boggling in its complexity. As such, as far as A is concerned ... it is clearly impossible for any practitioner of acupuncture to predictably place a needle in the correct spot in each person to elicit a predictable response.

Regarding B ... assuming the client does experience an opioid/endorphin response .. is this really 'curing' anything? Or just a quasi-natural temporary pain killer?

Having said all of that ... why not go for it? People are quick to dismiss and disparage the placebo affect. In reality, this is a very real and powerful response. Acupuncture is not dangerous ... so, if you can afford it, why not give it a whirl? Simply chuckle to yourself when the practitioner starts to sell you all of the unscientific CHI b.s. .... relax ... and see if your body will produce a positive experience .... be it placebo, hormonal, or both.

All you've got to lose is a few bucks.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Sliver

A cold? How on earth is accupuncture going to help rid you of a virus? That's preposterous.

I don't think it cures your cold, it just alleviates the symptoms so that it's a bit more bearable as your body fights off the cold naturally.

[Nage Waza]

If it works to help it should work to damage as well.

I heard that it may bring blood to the area which may feel good to the patient, but it is more than likely a scam.

[Misterpants]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Acupuncture is not dangerous ... so, if you can afford it, why not give it a whirl? Simply chuckle to yourself when the practitioner starts to sell you all of the unscientific CHI b.s. .... relax ... and see if your body will produce a positive experience .... be it placebo, hormonal, or both.

All you've got to lose is a few bucks.

Or you could black out, smoke your forehead on the needle table and wake up with 7 stitches in your forehead. I know these aren't typical results, but they happened to a friend of mine. Word to wise, test yourself around needles before you go.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by Misterpants

Or you could black out, smoke your forehead on the needle table and wake up with 7 stitches in your forehead. I know these aren't typical results, but they happened to a friend of mine. Word to wise, test yourself around needles before you go.

Heheheheh

Well sure .... there is always that.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Sliver

A cold? How on earth is accupuncture going to help rid you of a virus? That's preposterous.

Helps clear the sinuses right up.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

One of my girlfriends is getting acupuncture because she has been trying to get pregnant for over 3 years now. She and her husband have tried everything, including various expensive medical procedures and they've had no luck. She thinks this will work. The power of suggestion knows no boundaries.. but I am skeptical.

Dude, if you have a bunch of girlfriends, stick to the ones that aren't trying to get pregnant (and don't have husbands).

[troutman]

Acupuncture Revisited
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=11765

The time had come to re-visit the entire body of acupuncture research and try to make sense out of it all. The indefatigable CAM researcher Edzard Ernst stepped up to the plate. He and his colleagues in Korea and Exeter did an exhaustive study that was published in the April 2011 issue of the medical journal Pain: “Acupuncture: Does it alleviate pain and are there serious risks? A review of reviews.” It is accompanied by an editorial commentary written by yours truly: “Acupuncture’s claims punctured: Not proven effective for pain, not harmless.”

Overall the evidence is inconsistent, and the results tend to be negative among those studies judged to be of the highest quality. Where the results are positive, the reported benefits can be explained by the surrounding ritual, the beliefs and expectations of patient and practitioner, and other nonspecific effects of treatment. There is no evidence to support the vitalistic concept of qi or the prescientific mythology of acupuncture points and meridians; it doesn’t seem to matter where you put the needles or whether the skin is pierced. More modern science-based explanations like increased endorphin production are not convincing, since placebo pills can produce the same effects.

In summary, Ernst et al. have shown that the evidence for efficacy of acupuncture for the treatment of pain is questionable, to say the least, and of particular concern is that its use can be dangerous. If the 57 systematic reviews they surveyed had been for a prescription drug and a similar list of serious adverse effects had been reported for that drug, we would hesitate to prescribe that drug. Is there any reason not to hold acupuncture to the same standards?

[lucky1]

having undergone more sessions than I care to count of 'deep muscle release' which is a form of accupuncture......it is the real deal

[Thor]

Just read this today, good timing.

Acupuncture for Pain No Better Than Placebo -- And Not Without Harm, Study Finds

The authors observe that recent results from high-quality randomized controlled trials have shown that various forms of acupuncture, including so-called "sham acupuncture," during which no needles actually penetrate the skin, are equally effective for chronic low back pain, and more effective than standard care. In these and other studies, the effects were attributed to such factors as therapist conviction, patient enthusiasm or the acupuncturist's communication style.

If even sham acupuncture is as good as or better than standard care, then what is the harm? The answer lies in the adverse effect case studies. These studies were grouped into three categories: Infection (38 cases), trauma (42 cases) and other adverse effects (13 cases). Many of these adverse side effects are not intrinsic to acupuncture, but rather result from malpractice of acupuncturists. The most frequently reported complications included pneumothorax, (penetration of the thorax) and bacterial and viral infections. Five patients died after their treatment.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by lucky1

having undergone more sessions than I care to count of 'deep muscle release' which is a form of accupuncture......it is the real deal

Anecdotal vs. Evidence though.

I am glad that it worked for you ? But could it not be the placebo effect playing a role in that ?

[transplant99]

I tried it many moons ago and actually hated it as it did nothing for me and i have a phobia about needles etc as it is.

I know others that swear by it however including one that did it strictly to help control migraines and continues the treatment til this day because of her success...so who knows.

[troutman]

I think what the research is showing is that accupuncture "works" in that it makes some patients feel better, but it is not the needles that are doing anything - it is the ritual and the placebo effect that is effective.