Protein Shakes

[Deelow]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Good to know. I am actually doing the opposite of the OP (trying to lose weight) but I need some sort of supplement after a workout to recover. I was recommended a low carb/fat solution and didn't need the extra calories in milk.

I think I'll grab something that isn't chocolate, and give it a try.

What product are you using?

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Either way, I don't need the extra 110 calories.

And chances are you're getting a lot of extra calories you don't need from supplements/recovery drinks. A lot of people do.

How recovery drinks work:
Exercise depletes muscle glycogen stores. These glycogen stores must be fully replenished prior to your next work out, otherwise if you continually work out at less-than-recovered capacity, you'll have a gradual stacking effect that will lead to overreaching. You won't be able to train.

For most people, a regular diet is more than enough to replenish these stores. (The only problem would be if you're on a low carb diet). But the best way to recover these stores is what you eat/drink immediately after exercise.

During the first ~30 minutes after exercise, there is an insulin independent glucose uptake response; in other words, your body is in a depleted state and goes into a sort of metabolic overdrive. During this time, it is best to take a high GI food in, such as simple sugars. Some protein with this simple carbohydrate helps synthesize glycogen even further.

You should also eat within 2 hours of exercise, as despite returning to insulin-dependent glycogen synthesis, this is still a key time for recovery. This meal should be high in complex carbohydrates.

The best recovery drink is chocolate milk, hands down. 3:1 carbs : protein with plenty of simple sugars, and it's a drink which is easier after a workout (most people aren't hungry then).

99% of the supplement industry = unregulated, unsubstantiated claims. Useless.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Deelow

What product are you using?

Nothing at the moment. I was just looking into some possibilities to help restore my energy level after workouts. The store I went to was GNC, only because they sell nothing but supplements.

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

And chances are you're getting a lot of extra calories you don't need from supplements/recovery drinks. A lot of people do.

How recovery drinks work:
Exercise depletes muscle glycogen stores. These glycogen stores must be fully replenished prior to your next work out, otherwise if you continually work out at less-than-recovered capacity, you'll have a gradual stacking effect that will lead to overreaching. You won't be able to train.

For most people, a regular diet is more than enough to replenish these stores. (The only problem would be if you're on a low carb diet). But the best way to recover these stores is what you eat/drink immediately after exercise.

During the first ~30 minutes after exercise, there is an insulin independent glucose uptake response; in other words, your body is in a depleted state and goes into a sort of metabolic overdrive. During this time, it is best to take a high GI food in, such as simple sugars. Some protein with this simple carbohydrate helps synthesize glycogen even further.

You should also eat within 2 hours of exercise, as despite returning to insulin-dependent glycogen synthesis, this is still a key time for recovery. This meal should be high in complex carbohydrates.

The best recovery drink is chocolate milk, hands down. 3:1 carbs : protein with plenty of simple sugars, and it's a drink which is easier after a workout (most people aren't hungry then).

99% of the supplement industry = unregulated, unsubstantiated claims. Useless.

Good info, thanks for this. It is tough because right now I am on a purely weight loss kind of regimen. All I can have in a day is 1200 calories (could probably do more, but I am trying to lose as much weight as fast as possible. I want to be in good enough shape to do the P90x system in a few months. And yes, I am terribly out of shape/overweight).

After a workout, probably because I am so flabby, I am almost completely powered out. Someone mentioned to me that a good recovery supplement (didn't specify) would help me regain some of that energy.

I am pretty new to trying to be in shape and maintaining it.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Good info, thanks for this. It is tough because right now I am on a purely weight loss kind of regimen. All I can have in a day is 1200 calories (could probably do more, but I am trying to lose as much weight as fast as possible.

1200 calories doesn't sound like much. What is a normal days meals ?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Pinner

1200 calories doesn't sound like much. What is a normal days meals ?

Not a hell of a lot. I am a big dinner/supper eater, so I save most of my calories for that.

Usually 200 in the morning, 100-200 as a snack/lunch after a work out, 500-600 for dinner/supper, then about 200 in the evening as a snack.

Today (for example) I had:

Morning:
Cereal - 180 calories
Coffee - 20

Lunch:
Tuna Sandwich - 130
Yogurt cup - 35
Can of V8 - 70

Snack:
Medium sized Apple - 60

Dinner:
Skinless Turkey Breast (6 oz) w/Gravy - 220
Stovetop Stuffing - 320
Coffee - 20

Which leaves me a grand total of 145 calories for a snack, which will probably be some oatmeal. I work out 6 days a week, and in 2 weeks I have lost 9 pounds.

It can be a little frustrating staying full and finding variety, but so far this plan has been worth it.

[something]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Nothing at the moment. I was just looking into some possibilities to help restore my energy level after workouts. The store I went to was GNC, only because they sell nothing but supplements.



Good info, thanks for this. It is tough because right now I am on a purely weight loss kind of regimen. All I can have in a day is 1200 calories (could probably do more, but I am trying to lose as much weight as fast as possible. I want to be in good enough shape to do the P90x system in a few months. And yes, I am terribly out of shape/overweight).

After a workout, probably because I am so flabby, I am almost completely powered out. Someone mentioned to me that a good recovery supplement (didn't specify) would help me regain some of that energy.

I am pretty new to trying to be in shape and maintaining it.

Though I have never met you, I can assure you that your body needs more than 1200 calories a day. What gave you this number?

If you are consuming this few calories, you're going to lose fat and muscle simultaneously. This will stunt your metabolic system, and have general negative consequences on your health.

Muscle retention during weight loss is a tricky thing, but it is crucial that you learn dieting and workout principles that will access your fat stores, not your muscle, to aid in weight loss.

To the OP - post workout shakes are great; but, if you are having trouble putting on weight, I can almost guarantee that your post workout shake is the least of your concerns. Your diet is likely what needs to be focused on. Modifying your post workout shake is unlikely to resolve this issue, as a standalone solution.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by something

Though I have never met you, I can assure you that your body needs more than 1200 calories a day. What gave you this number?

If you are consuming this few calories, you're going to lose fat and muscle simultaneously. This will stunt your metabolic system, and have general negative consequences on your health.

Muscle retention during weight loss is a tricky thing, but it is crucial that you learn dieting and workout principles that will access your fat stores, not your muscle, to aid in weight loss.

My family physician in conjunction with the clinic's dietitian. Once I hit my target I have to bump it up significantly.

With my workout routine, I haven't lost any muscle and have actually gained strength, stability, and flexibility.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

If you ingest 50 grams of protein after a workout about 3/4 of that is going to be released through your urine as the body can only handle X amount of protein.

That doesn't happen unless you have a kidney problem.

Taking protein in high doses is not something I would recommend...

Here's just a recent article looking at the effects:

High protein intake associates with cardiovascular events but not with loss of renal function.

Halbesma N, Bakker SJ, Jansen DF, Stolk RP, De Zeeuw D, De Jong PE, Gansevoort RT; PREVEND Study Group.
Division of Nephrology, Department of Medicine, University Medical Center Groningen, University Hospital Groningen, Groningen, Netherlands.

The long-term effects of higher dietary protein intake on cardiovascular and renal outcomes in the general population are not clear. We analyzed data from 8461 individuals who did not have renal disease and participated in two or three subsequent screenings (6.4-yr follow-up) in a prospective, community-based cohort study (Prevention of Renal and Vascular ENd-stage Disease [PREVEND]). We calculated daily protein intake from 24-h urinary urea excretion (Maroni formula) and used Cox proportional hazard models to analyze the associations between protein intake, cardiovascular events, and mortality. We used mixed-effects models to investigate the association between protein intake and change in renal function over time. The mean +/- SD daily protein intake was 1.20 +/- 0.27 g/kg. Protein intake was significantly associated with cardiovascular events during follow-up. The associations seemed U-shaped; compared with intermediate protein intake, individuals with either higher or lower protein intake had higher event rates. All-cause mortality and noncardiovascular mortality also were significantly associated with protein intake; individuals with low protein intake had the highest event rates. We found no association between baseline protein intake and rate of renal function decline during follow-up. In summary, in the general population, high protein intake does not promote accelerated decline of renal function but does associate with an increased risk for cardiovascular events.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Yamer

After a workout, probably because I am so flabby, I am almost completely powered out. Someone mentioned to me that a good recovery supplement (didn't specify) would help me regain some of that energy.

Try 250 ml of chocolate milk immediately post work out, and eat a "regularly scheduled meal" within 2 hours. The problem in your scenario is that 1200 calories is so few and you're exercising regularly - you're going to be fatigued no matter what form those 1200 calories are in.

If anyone is interested, I can dig up some research and references to substantiate my claims.

Originally Posted by yamer

My family physician in conjunction with the clinic's dietitian. Once I hit my target I have to bump it up significantly.

With my workout routine, I haven't lost any muscle and have actually gained strength, stability, and flexibility.

I'm not sure what your goals are, but generally it is not a good idea to go on a "purge" as it were and then increase caloric intake like that. As you can imagine, weight loss puts a lot of stress on the body and it's generally recommended that it's done through lifestyle changes - ie each week you eat 100 calories less a day from the previous week, rather than going from 3500 calories (for example) to 1200. Also, you will likely gain weight when you increase your caloric intake from 1200 at the end. In fact, I can all but guarantee it.

Originally Posted by something

Though I have never met you, I can assure you that your body needs more than 1200 calories a day. What gave you this number?

If you are consuming this few calories, you're going to lose fat and muscle simultaneously. This will stunt your metabolic system, and have general negative consequences on your health.

Muscle retention during weight loss is a tricky thing, but it is crucial that you learn dieting and workout principles that will access your fat stores, not your muscle, to aid in weight loss.

I agree - 1200 calories a day isn't even enough for a 110 pound 5"6 woman who doesn't do any physical activity. Sure the mechanism of weight loss works via an energy deficit, but giving yourself a lot of time and making small, significant changes in diet and exercise allows for much more self-efficacy when it comes down to the nitty-gritty.

Generally with weight loss, so long as you don't go more than 8 hours without eating something (besides sleep), you won't lose muscle, even with a high energy deficit. That's the evolutionary purpose of adipose tissue, after all. There may be a problem, however, if your energy deficit is so high that you're not able to sustain your activity even when all excess fat is gone, which may be the case on 1200 calories and a heavy workout schedule. If adipose stores aren't enough to meet the energy deficit, your body will target muscle for energy.

[something]

Originally Posted by Yamer

My family physician in conjunction with the clinic's dietitian. Once I hit my target I have to bump it up significantly.

With my workout routine, I haven't lost any muscle and have actually gained strength, stability, and flexibility.

Hmmm, 1200 cal is unusually low but good to know that you are receiving professional guidance.

How long have you been doing this diet/workout regime? What information leads you to believe that you haven't lost any muscle - the strength gains?

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Nothing at the moment. I was just looking into some possibilities to help restore my energy level after workouts. The store I went to was GNC, only because they sell nothing but supplements.



Good info, thanks for this. It is tough because right now I am on a purely weight loss kind of regimen. All I can have in a day is 1200 calories (could probably do more, but I am trying to lose as much weight as fast as possible. I want to be in good enough shape to do the P90x system in a few months. And yes, I am terribly out of shape/overweight).

After a workout, probably because I am so flabby, I am almost completely powered out. Someone mentioned to me that a good recovery supplement (didn't specify) would help me regain some of that energy.

I am pretty new to trying to be in shape and maintaining it.

your calories are too low... That is why you dont have any energy to do the working out . Not to mention that if you lose a lot of fat really fast, you will have a lot of loose skin . The best thing to do in find your maitenence calories and then subtract 500 calories from that. Work out 3 times a week with weights and you should lose 1-2lbs a week. If your not losing as much weight as you would like keep subtracting another 100 calories a day until you are losing enough.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Dinner:
Skinless Turkey Breast (6 oz) w/Gravy - 220
Stovetop Stuffing - 320
Coffee - 20

Over 25% of your daily calories for Stovetop Stuffing ? LoL

I would use those calories for a fruit smoothie with breakfast and some more fruit/grain/nuts/veggies or something healthy.

[Yamer]

@TheSutterDynasty: Yeah, I discussed a lot of that with the dietitian. I won't be doubling my caloric intake overnight. Good to know your looking out for me, though.

Also, I'll check out the chocolate milk idea...and I may adjust my workout schedule to coincide with your suggestions. I am mostly fatigued right after my workout, for about an hour. I think it has a lot to do with my previous lifestyle and the fact that I am a good 55 pounds overweight.

Originally Posted by something

Hmmm, 1200 cal is unusually low but good to know that you are receiving professional guidance.

How long have you been doing this diet/workout regime? What information leads you to believe that you haven't lost any muscle - the strength gains?

2 weeks today. I guess I don't really have any solid proof that I haven't lost muscle. The increase in strength leads me to believe that I haven't lost anything of significance. I feel good, but that may not be enough.

I carry almost all of my weight between my chest and my knees, and I resemble a walking pear. I don't really expect to be gaining any muscle, I just want to maintain. Fat loss is my #1 priority for now.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

your calories are too low... That is why you dont have any energy to do the working out . Not to mention that if you lose a lot of fat really fast, you will have a lot of loose skin . The best thing to do in find your maitenence calories and then subtract 500 calories from that. Work out 3 times a week with weights and you should lose 1-2lbs a week. If your not losing as much weight as you would like keep subtracting another 100 calories a day until you are losing enough.

Good advice about the excess skin. And the energy is just reduced for about an hour after a workout, which I am always able to complete. I would just prefer to not feel sleepy for that hour post-workout.

Originally Posted by Pinner

Over 25% of your daily calories for Stovetop Stuffing ? LoL

I would use those calories for a fruit smoothie with breakfast and some more fruit/grain/nuts/veggies or something healthy.

Haha, I fully understand that. Unfortunately, I am not always in complete control of all my meals and the selections. Having a household of different tastes and requirements. If it were up to me it would have been different, and will be.

Thanks again for everyones advice, and I apologize for again finding a way to hijack a thread. Perhaps we can help hkstylez as well?

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Yamer

@TheSutterDynasty: Yeah, I discussed a lot of that with the dietitian. I won't be doubling my caloric intake overnight. Good to know your looking out for me, though.

Also, I'll check out the chocolate milk idea...and I may adjust my workout schedule to coincide with your suggestions. I am mostly fatigued right after my workout, for about an hour. I think it has a lot to do with my previous lifestyle and the fact that I am a good 55 pounds overweight.



2 weeks today. I guess I don't really have any solid proof that I haven't lost muscle. The increase in strength leads me to believe that I haven't lost anything of significance. I feel good, but that may not be enough.

I carry almost all of my weight between my chest and my knees, and I resemble a walking pear. I don't really expect to be gaining any muscle, I just want to maintain. Fat loss is my #1 priority for now.

Sadly I think whenever you lose weight your going to lose muscle. I think its just the nature of the beast.

I am trying to lose weight now after putting on 30+ dealing with my back issues. I am using http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16 ( which is the fat loss section of BB.com) . Its good for info and motivation.
I also ordered some Protein from there Got a huge jug of Whey, a smaller one of Caesin protein, and some fiber for like 68 bucks . I also ordered a body tape measure . I hit 75 bucks so I got a free battery powered mixer and they threw in a free razor too. http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/op...ancestack.html

[robocop]

If I knew you Yamer I'd make you lose weight no problemo, it takes proper diet, exercise and sleep routines to maintain a healthy body and most people have zero discipline at any of them.

My best advice regarding your specific situation is that you are making the mistake of looking at this from a standpoint of having an end goal and the result is your viewpoint becomes a little skewed and your decisions on what you do are less logical(stovetop stuffing, that's straight up nonsense). Instead of trying to lose weight fast I would advise looking at it as trying to get healthy, a life style change as opposed to a weight loss goal. The problem with quick weight loss is it centers around something that should be your secondary goal and in all likelihood you will just gain the weight back. I honestly don't know how much I weigh because I don't care, and it makes it a lot easier when you think about it that way. The biggest problem is if you lose the weight too quickly there are health risks, and then gaining it back is twice as bad and you'd be better off having not lost it in the first place.

edit: and over time that post workout sleepiness becomes very minimal if you are healthy enough

here's my diet, everything I eat on a regular basis:

breakfast(one of):
-oatmeal with fruit thrown in
-fruit/veggie smoothie

lunch(one or two of):
-whole grain wrap with chicken and spinach (sometimes cheese)
-whole grain sandwich " "
-spinach salad with corn, beans and chicken
-assorted fruits and vegetables

dinner(one or two of):
-whole grain pasta
-fruit/veggie smoothie
-home made pizza on a whole grain pita with pasta sauce, chicken and vegetables
-butter chicken with whole grain rice (watch out for the sauce, it can be fatty)
-baked salmon with whole grain rice
-assorted raw vegetables

this is my standard diet, this is the kind of thing that it takes to stick to a healthy lifestyle. It's best to keep the meals fairly small and have healthy snacks thrown in throughout the day because it speeds up your metabolism, (e.g a banana an hour after breakfast and some vegetables an hour or two after lunch). I wish you luck on your future goals.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Yamer, not to pile on but I agree with others here that your diet and caloric intake can't be enough. It's actually not just a little low, but extremely low.
Congrats on losing 9 pounds, I'm sure it feels good; but maybe consult a second dietician?

I would also recommend starting to transition the bulk of your calories to earlier in the day. You're body will start adapting to using more calories throughout the day and your appetite at dinner with diminish so you don't need to binge eat in the evening.

[Yamer]

@nickerjones: That is probably true (muscle loss) when on a purely weight loss regimen. Thanks for the links, I will check it out. I also think I will take your earlier advice to heart.

@robocop: Don't worry, this isn't just a set goal and be done with it. I have undertaken a complete life philosophy change. I now look at the way I eat differently, and also the amount and type of activity I encourage myself to partake in. It isn't just purely calorie counting and walking on the treadmill. As for the food choices, like I mentioned earlier it isn't always in my control. When I do control it, it is often quite different than the dinner I had today with family. The diet you presented seems perfectly within reason as well.

I think it is important to set goals but not to resign yourself to 'all is ok now' once you reach them. This is a brand new lifestyle I am just recently discovering with the help of a few trusted sources, and obviously the great community I have at my disposal in CP. I have learned a lot about what and when to eat, and also when not to (eating right before bed used to be a nightly ritual, until I learned about putting my body into a fasting sleep).

@Winsor_Pilates: You may be just as right as everyone else, so feel free to 'pile on'. I was suggested a caloric intake of 1200-1500 per day (and I went with the low end for the fools fast results), but I may take your advice on seeking a second opinion. It seemed awfully low to begin with, but I couldn't argue with the results. From what I understand, it takes about 3200 calories for a man my size in a sedentary lifestyle to maintain. I questioned the 2000 calorie deficit after I got home from the doctors and looked it up, but I took it as professional opinion and put it out of my mind. It's possible that I misinterpreted what was said, there was a lot of information coming fast and furious.

I think I will look into this a bit more, and consult my physician again with these findings. I want to lose weight, but not at the risk of my overall health.

[Pinner]

You sure your BMR is 3200 calories ?

A normal healthy diet from what I understand would be 500 calories under your BMR. That would result in 1lb loss per week without any extra exercise.

http://www.calculator.org/calculate-...olic-rate.aspx

[robocop]

what's really concerning is that you eat so many empty calories. that's why I hate calorie counting, so many of them that you listed bring so little nutritional value that the whole idea is completely irrelevant, stovetop stuffing for christs sake.... it's not that hard to not eat it, go buy some whole grain pasta and some broccoli instead and when your family serves up something ridiculously unhealthy just don't eat it. I say stop focusing on this calorie nonsense and focus way more on decently portioned meals that provide significant nutritional value. Not that the quantity of calories isn't important, but the whole situation seems setup for you to fail. The (lack of) nutrition in the food you're eating is going to leave you so drained of energy that the workouts will be a waste of time.

If you want to get healthy and fit you have to live the lifestyle of a healthy fit person, this isn't rocket science and it shouldn't be so hard. All it takes is hard work, logic and discipline. If I were your trainer I'd throw out your scale and get you eating healthy, you are greatly underestimating the impact proper nutrition has on you both mentally and physically.