Suicide Bombing at Moscow Airport

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know if I buy this logic, even without god we'd still have actions like this for other reasons.

And without religion and the fear of punishment in the afterlife for example, there would be just as many or more politisized bombings because peopel would want ot achieve their aims with no fear of suppossed punishment for their fatal acts.

No matter what people say these terrorist bombings are done to achieve a political aim and not a religious aim, the religion aspect is pretty much camoflage.

One problem at a time.

How many people would blow themselves up if they knew there was nothing on the other side? no afterlife,no 72 virgins..nothing.

[Coys1882]

I can guarantee one thing - the Russians will deal with this a lot different that we or the USA would.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

One problem at a time.

How many people would blow themselves up if they knew there was nothing on the other side? no afterlife,no 72 virgins..nothing.

It would be a different reason to blow yourself up.

I have to achieve my goals in this lifetime because when I'm dead I'm dead, my reward is forcing change through my actions.

If you read up on a lot of the old communist leadership, what drove their ruthless application of World Socialism in our lifetime was the fact that their life was a finite thing and they wanted to see results before they died.

I'm just not sure that I buy that organized religion is the sole forming reasons for these acts, and without a belief in god that these acts would decelerate.

I do have a a small belief that we might even see them on a larger scale.

[Ace]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Another suicide attack from what I'm reading. Why is it so hard to stamp out extremists and the religious structures that support them?

Because society is built on the premise that the most valuable thing is your own life. Once this is eliminated from the equation it's impossible to prevent.

Now it's just about trying to prevent it from happening in certain locations...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I can guarantee one thing - the Russians will deal with this a lot different that we or the USA would.

The Russians have a different viewpoint on dealing with these kind of things. they are remember what they did in the hostage taking in the cinema a few years ago.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know if I buy this logic, even without god we'd still have actions like this for other reasons.

And without religion and the fear of punishment in the afterlife for example, there would be just as many or more politisized bombings because peopel would want ot achieve their aims with no fear of suppossed punishment for their fatal acts.

No matter what people say these terrorist bombings are done to achieve a political aim and not a religious aim, the religion aspect is pretty much camoflage.

Agree 100%. It's unfortunately the natural state of our species to form tribes and attack other tribes to gain resources.

If there was no religious idelogies, peope would simply find another reason to identify the "other". It would be ethnicity, political ideologies, or something else.

There is a great South Park episode on the issue. Some may think it's a dumb show, but it makes some pretty profound points sometimes.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It would be a different reason to blow yourself up.

I have to achieve my goals in this lifetime because when I'm dead I'm dead, my reward is forcing change through my actions.

If you read up on a lot of the old communist leadership, what drove their ruthless application of World Socialism in our lifetime was the fact that their life was a finite thing and they wanted to see results before they died.

I'm just not sure that I buy that organized religion is the sole forming reasons for these acts, and without a belief in god that these acts would decelerate.

I do have a a small belief that we might even see them on a larger scale.

Until I see atheist suicide bombers I will have to take the position this kind of stuff is religiously motivated.

And considering studies show less than 15% of individual suicides in north america are done by atheists I really have a hard time believing we would see a bigger scale.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I can guarantee one thing - the Russians will deal with this a lot different that we or the USA would.

You don't mess with the Russians:

In October 1985, Alfa was dispatched to Beirut, Lebanon, when four Soviet diplomats had been taken hostage by a Sunni militant group. By the time Alfa was onsite, one of the hostages had already been killed. The perpetrators and their relatives were identified by supporting KGB operatives, and the relatives were taken hostage. Following the standard policy of 'no negotiation', Alfa proceeded to sever some of their hostages' body parts and sent them to the perpetrators with a warning that more would follow if the Russian hostages were not released immediately. The tactic was a success and no other Russian national was taken hostage in the Middle East for the next 20 years,[2] until the 2006 abduction of Russian diplomats in Iraq.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by T@T

Until I see atheist suicide bombers I will have to take the position this kind of stuff is religiously motivated.

Kamikaze pilots in WWII? It's also a tactic commonly used in Sri Lanka. The Tamils area religiously diverse people. I'm sure many of their soldiers are atheists.

Suicide bombing happens to be popular with Islamists right now, but throughout history a variety of political causes have inspired similar acts.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

Kamikaze pilots in WWII? It's also a tactic commonly used in Sri Lanka. The Tamils area religiously diverse people. I'm sure many of their soldiers are atheists.

Suicide bombing happens to be popular with Islamists right now, but throughout history a variety of political causes have inspired similar acts.

North Vietnamese during the Vietnam War also produced the occasional suicide bomber.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

Until I see atheist suicide bombers I will have to take the position this kind of stuff is religiously motivated.

And considering studies show less than 15% of individual suicides in north america are done by atheists I really have a hard time believing we would see a bigger scale.

The Tamil Tigers were as atheist as it comes, they were motivated by a marxist lenin political structure and carving out their own homeland and they were responsible for a massive number of suicide bombings and suicide attempts.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by Bob

You don't mess with the Russians:

Eye for an eye punishment when dealing with hostage takers... I really like that.

Got any other stories on this Alfa team?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by blankall

Kamikaze pilots in WWII? It's also a tactic commonly used in Sri Lanka. The Tamils area religiously diverse people. I'm sure many of their soldiers are atheists.

Suicide bombing happens to be popular with Islamists right now, but throughout history a variety of political causes have inspired similar acts.

One could say the Japanese were brainwashed by their leader (form of religion?)

And the Tamilis are made up of Hindus,Muslims and a few Christians.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

Eye for an eye punishment when dealing with hostage takers... I really like that.

Got any other stories on this Alfa team?

In 1979, an Alfa unit stormed the Afghan presidential palace and eliminated the President as a prelude to the Soviet invasion... Unfortunately, Western units are hampered by silly things like the law , and cannot do that... "You say you have our Ambassador? Well, here is your mother's leg... if you want the rest of her..."

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

One could say the Japanese were brainwashed by their leader (form of religion?)

And the Tamilis are made up of Hindus,Muslims and a few Christians.

Please show me where the Tamils were idealogically driven by religion.
They were a marxist leninist organization so there was no promises of heaven or being able to stand proudly before god after they commited their act.

Their war had nothing to do with religion.

And everything to do with a political aim.

You could also argue that the Japanese Kamikaze were driven by their subserviance to the emperor and the defense of their homeland and not by religious aims. Most of the suicide bombings occured as the U.S. fleet was driving to their homeland and not as much earlier when the Japanese were having their success in the pacific.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I can guarantee one thing - the Russians will deal with this a lot different that we or the USA would.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing how they react to this. Russians are crazy.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Please show me where the Tamils were idealogically driven by religion.
They were a marxist leninist organization so there was no promises of heaven or being able to stand proudly before god after they commited their act.

Their war had nothing to do with religion.

And everything to do with a political aim.

You could also argue that the Japanese Kamikaze were driven by their subserviance to the emperor and the defense of their homeland and not by religious aims. Most of the suicide bombings occured as the U.S. fleet was driving to their homeland and not as much earlier when the Japanese were having their success in the pacific.

I'm not saying the Tamils were driven by religion but they weren't atheists either,95% were probably Hindus and I remember a story that there leader was thought to have converted from a Hindu to a Christian. (no idea if true)

As for the Japanese as they became more desperate the leaders convinced the pilots that being a kamikaze would be rewarded in the afterlife. Because they didn't use the words God or Muhammad doesn't mean there wasn't a form of religion for their acts.

Fact is most (not all) of these type of attacks nowdays come from religious extremists

[amorak]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm not saying the Tamils were driven by religion but they weren't atheists either,95% were probably Hindus and I remember a story that there leader was thought to have converted from a Hindu to a Christian. (no idea if true)

As for the Japanese as they became more desperate the leaders convinced the pilots that being a kamikaze would be rewarded in the afterlife. Because they didn't use the words God or Muhammad doesn't mean there wasn't a form of religion for their acts.

Fact is most (not all) of these type of attacks nowdays come from religious extremists

You're grasping at straws with your argument here, and your inability to discuss anything without turning it into a childish I hate GOD diatribe is wearing thin. I am agnostic myself, but your tireless "HAAH stupid god lovers you kill everyone" comments make me wish for an afterlife, just to watch St Peter or Frank or whoever say "T@T? LOL!"

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Mike Oxlong

I just don't see how we can ever put enough security measures in place to stop these people. Sure right now they are targetting airports. If we put scanners or other security measures in place for anyone entering an airport the terrorists will just move to other targets.

Think of all the places they can potentially hit where there are hundreds if not thousands of people gathered. Festivals, Train stations, Shopping malls, office buildings, concerts, sporting events etc....I know some of these targets have already been hit obviously. If these terrorists want to kill people they will find a way. There is just no way we can provide enough security to completely stop them.

Is this just going to be a new reality we are going to have to live in fear of?

You still have a better chance of getting struck by lightning, as opposed to dying from a terror attack.

...but don't worry, Homeland Security will be deploying mobile x-ray scanners at malls, concerts, sports events, subways, bus and train stations to keep America safe.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm not saying the Tamils were driven by religion but they weren't atheists either,95% were probably Hindus and I remember a story that there leader was thought to have converted from a Hindu to a Christian. (no idea if true)

As for the Japanese as they became more desperate the leaders convinced the pilots that being a kamikaze would be rewarded in the afterlife. Because they didn't use the words God or Muhammad doesn't mean there wasn't a form of religion for their acts.

Fact is most (not all) of these type of attacks nowdays come from religious extremists

I honestly think that your argument is a little thin here. Look at the Tamils manifesto. Unless your arguing that Marx and Lenin were god heads that promised a religious reward, the tiger's had nothing to do with religion or war.

The Kamikaze pilots weren't driven by a promise of afterlife, they were driven by the Bushodo (sp?) code which embraced seppuku which enhanced their honor on this plane of existance.