What is going on in Mexico?!

[MJM]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'm honestly shocked at some of the responses in the thread. First, I'm surprised at how willing to believe Mexican "authorities" on this matter; and second, I'm shocked about how many people are like "well that's what you get for causing trouble". Even if they were assaulted and robbed, these are the freaking police. If they were drunk and disorderly put them in the drunk tank, have them pay a fine and then move on.

Why?

I don't think anyone is believing the Mexican authorities that nothing happen to these people. I just think people are seriously questioning the extent of what happened given the way the people reporting the event are carrying themselves.

For your second question, you are in a foreign country, things aren't the same there. Clearly police act in a different manner in third world countries. So if you don't want to deal it, don't put yourself in position to get in trouble in the first place. This guy fully admits to being a confrontation with another person, and exhuberantly states that he was not complying with police and that he would never adhere to the commands of a police officer if he felt they were unreasonable regardless of the potential consequences (says he would "deal with the charges after the fact"). These are not innocent bystanders....

If a law officer asks you to do something you do it, especially when you are outside the borders of your own country.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'm honestly shocked at some of the responses in the thread. First, I'm surprised at how willing to believe Mexican "authorities" on this matter; and second, I'm shocked about how many people are like "well that's what you get for causing trouble". Even if they were assaulted and robbed, these are the freaking police. If they were drunk and disorderly put them in the drunk tank, have them pay a fine and then move on.

As much as I think the woman's story is little iffy, she is a Canadian citizen and I think 100% of our loyalty should go to her- the country of Mexico has not given us any reason over the last few years to offer them the benefit of the doubt... And until the truth comes out, the accusations deserve great attention.

If it is discovered down the road that the accusations are completely false, then the woman deserves all our scorn- women that make false accusations of rape are scum and create tremendous problems for women that have
really been sexually assaulted...

[amorak]

Originally Posted by Pinner

IIRC there was 12,000 murders in Mexico last year

11,998 of those deaths were Mexicans. 10,000 of them were involved in the drug trade, the other 1,998 were inoccent Mexican's caught in the cross fire. The drug trade is no where near these resort areas (Puerto Vaharta, Cancun, etc). Its up north near the consumers of the drugs (USA).

I have been to mexico multiple times, including recently in October with a group for my wedding. Spent some time in Playa del Carmen - beautiful beaches and nice shopping strip there. If you're not an idiot, you'll not get in trouble.

I echo the comments here - If you question the local Mexican cops (not the federales) and get into an argument, you're likely to end up getting roughed up - this isn't Canada, why the hell would you, as a non-resident, argue with the local law enforcemnet, knowing that they are not up to your standards?

The rest of their store smacks of a lie - She is forced to suck a bunch of cops wangs, and then the fiance tries to commit suicide? All over getting, essentially, put in the drunk tank?

I think it went like this

1) Guy gets into an argumeent with the cops

2) Guy and girl get taken to Mexican-equivalent of the drunk tank

3) Drunkenly, girl offers to suck officer to get out of jail

4) Cop, being corrupt mexican local cop, accepts

5) other prisoners find out, as the article says, and then fiancee finds out

6) Girl comes up with story to protect her relationship with fiance. "Honey, I didn't suck 4 wangs to get out of jail, I promise! It was raaaaaaaaaaaaape"

Explains the situation to a tee and I would be pretty shocked if the truth isn't close to the above.

Coles notes:

1. Expecting Canadian-level law enforcement in Mexico is like hugging a wolf and being supprised when it bites your ear off. A domesticated dog is worlds apart from a wolf, and you're an idiot for not knowing how to behave around something that looks similiar, but acts differently. There's no difference to how these dolts acted around Mexican locale cops vs. expecting canadian-style treatement. Mexican locale cops are still backwater (federales are better), so act accordingly, goof
2. Don't offer to suck a local mexican cops dick in an effort to get out of jail and let your fiancee find out about it

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by amorak

11,998 of those deaths were Mexicans. 10,000 of them were involved in the drug trade, the other 1,998 were inoccent Mexican's caught in the cross fire. The drug trade is no where near these resort areas (Puerto Vaharta, Cancun, etc). Its up north near the consumers of the drugs (USA).

I have been to mexico multiple times, including recently in October with a group for my wedding. Spent some time in Playa del Carmen - beautiful beaches and nice shopping strip there. If you're not an idiot, you'll not get in trouble.

I echo the comments here - If you question the local Mexican cops (not the federales) and get into an argument, you're likely to end up getting roughed up - this isn't Canada, why the hell would you, as a non-resident, argue with the local law enforcemnet, knowing that they are not up to your standards?

The rest of their store smacks of a lie - She is forced to suck a bunch of cops wangs, and then the fiance tries to commit suicide? All over getting, essentially, put in the drunk tank?

I think it went like this

1) Guy gets into an argumeent with the cops

2) Guy and girl get taken to Mexican-equivalent of the drunk tank

3) Drunkenly, girl offers to suck officer to get out of jail

4) Cop, being corrupt mexican local cop, accepts

5) other prisoners find out, as the article says, and then fiancee finds out

6) Girl comes up with story to protect her relationship with fiance. "Honey, I didn't suck 4 wangs to get out of jail, I promise! It was raaaaaaaaaaaaape"

Explains the situation to a tee and I would be pretty shocked if the truth isn't close to the above.

Coles notes:

1. Expecting Canadian-level law enforcement in Mexico is like hugging a wolf and being supprised when it bites your ear off. A domesticated dog is worlds apart from a wolf, and you're an idiot for not knowing how to behave around something that looks similiar, but acts differently. There's no difference to how these dolts acted around Mexican locale cops vs. expecting canadian-style treatement. Mexican locale cops are still backwater (federales are better), so act accordingly, goof
2. Don't offer to suck a local mexican cops dick in an effort to get out of jail and let your fiancee find out about it

She should have offered up her fiance for the sucky sucky without telling him. Then sitcom like hilarity would ensue.

[OBCT]

I've been to several different parts of Mexico within the last few years and apart from the unavoidable culture shock, I never had a problem. I'd go back tomorrow if I could.

That includes staying in Playa del Carmen (not in a resort; 5+ blocks from tourist-y stuff) for a week, and gallivanting all over Mazatlan for a week. I'm unlike a lot of people in that I find a large part of the fun of travel is living with the locals. I'm not great with Spanish, but all it takes is finding some veteran visitors to the area or especially helpful bilingual locals, then picking their brain about different activities/food to try and things to avoid. There's so much more to these places than the beachfront resort you see in the pamphlet.

Now, that said, although I'm somewhat adventurous, I'm also cautious about it. There's no reason to make a fuss in a foreign country, especially when you can't communicate with most of those who live there.

Back to the alleged assault in Playa del Carmen... I'm almost certain they guys "had it coming" (at least to some degree). One of the first things I noticed in PdC was the extremely high ratio of cops to people. There were police EVERYWHERE throughout the town. I asked several people why this was the case, and they said mainly to prevent drug lords from taking root there, and secondly, to maintain peace so that the tourism industry remains strong (it's their biggest industry). It would not surprise me one bit if a bored officer got annoyed by an obnoxious tourist and went a bit too far, but tourists must know their limits when in foreign countries... no excuses.

[wookster]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'm honestly shocked at some of the responses in the thread. First, I'm surprised at how willing to believe Mexican "authorities" on this matter; and second, I'm shocked about how many people are like "well that's what you get for causing trouble". Even if they were assaulted and robbed, these are the freaking police. If they were drunk and disorderly put them in the drunk tank, have them pay a fine and then move on.

Do you honestly think that even in Calgary that if you resist arrest you aren't going to have a half dozen cops on top of you and I doubt they are going to be "gentle" when they throw you in the drunk tank. Now multiply this by the fact that the police in Mexico probably aren't using the same standards as our guys are, this would be why I would say that if you are acting or doing something stupid why your down there, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for you...

I don't know for sure what happened to the guy but I'm just going by what I know about the resort area's of Mexico.

[GreenLantern]

I have been to Mexico twice and both times the service was horrible on my resort, but quite good in the city. I wouldn't go back to Playa, but I would go back to Huatulco tomorrow if I could..

Watching guys walk around with assault rifles is a little unsettling at times, but they don't even look at you as a tourist. Policia are corrupt as hell, don't even make eye contact with them if you can avoid it. What was that couple arrested for in the first place?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by wookster

Do you honestly think that even in Calgary that if you resist arrest you aren't going to have a half dozen cops on top of you and I doubt they are going to be "gentle" when they throw you in the drunk tank. Now multiply this by the fact that the police in Mexico probably aren't using the same standards as our guys are, this would be why I would say that if you are acting or doing something stupid why your down there, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for you...

I don't know for sure what happened to the guy but I'm just going by what I know about the resort area's of Mexico.

The Calgary cops in the drunk tank will never lay a hand on you. The pink bunny on the other hand, that rabbits a stone cold beatdown machine.

[wookster]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Calgary cops in the drunk tank will never lay a hand on you. The pink bunny on the other hand, that rabbits a stone cold beatdown machine.

Yeah that may be true, but I was referring to the cops that are handling your "resisting arrest" before you get to the drunk tank...

[jtfrogger]

I was in Tijuana nearly three years ago, and I spent time with people that were doing missionary work to help out the people down there. The stories I heard were crazy. Simply put, both corruption within the police force and sexual abuse is rampant. I have not looked deeply into this story, but nothing about it surprises me and is very plausible. Lives of foreigners or children were not really worth much.

To give an example of some of the craziness that happens, you can review this web site: BreakingChains.org. (WARNING: some of his descriptions of what happens are graphic and disgusting. I don't want to hunt through the site to find specific ones to share. It is too disturbing, and I am not in the mood for that right now.) I met the guy that runs this web site. He breaks children out of forced prostitution. In all honesty, I am surprised that he is still alive. From what I recall, you can buy a child slave for something like $200 or rent them for a day for $20. If you give the child to the authorities, they get put in a state orphanage which is often just a front for a prostitution ring.

[chemgear]

VBS had an interesting segment on Mexico city a while back. (probably NSFW . . . probably not safe whilst eating either.)

http://www.vbs.tv/en-ca/newsroom/alarma-1-of-3--5

These are the same guys that went into North Korea - they hit some pretty eye openning places.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by OBCT

I'm unlike a lot of people in that I find a large part of the fun of travel is living with the locals.

This. And this is the difference, IMO, between traveling and vacationing. Mexico for a week on a 5-star resort is not "travel;" it's vacation. I hate when people try to tell me otherwise. Travel implies something different if you're going for leisurely purposes.

[flylock shox]

To answer the OP's ponderings about Canadian media: yes, the dangers of traveling in Mexico are overblown, and most certainly overgeneralized. In fact, having spent the last year traveling the world (problem free mind you) I have come to the firm conclusion that North American media is inherently fear-mongering and that North Americans are, as a result, an extremely paranoid people.

I just spent 5 weeks in Mexico, entirely in the Mayan Riviera, and with the exception of 3 nights, entirely outside of resort complexes. I traveled using local transport (colectivos and taxis), walked around outside the tourist district at night, went biking along the highway during the day and night (including through military checkpoints) and never had a single problem nor any threat of danger.

Is there danger in Mexico? Certainly, and I think you'd be a bit crazy to travel around near the American border in towns like Ciudad Juarez for example. But the danger is not in "Mexico" as opposed to "parts of Mexico." Avoid areas where drug wars are going on and these dangers are greatly reduced. I'm not particularly familiar with Mazatlan, but Sinaloa is, generally, not the safest place at the moment. In addition to the usual gang problems, there has been particular upheaval lately related to the Sinaloa cartel. This poor gentleman happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (and during a particularly bad time to be in the area generally).

Are the Mexican police corrupt? Absolutely. Although I had no negative experiences myself, I talked to enough Mexicans who were of the view that avoiding the police was always the best approach - even when you've been the victim of a crime. I've also heard multiple stories from other travelers who put themselves in dubious situation and ended up being extorted by the police. But very few people who were just minding their own business and behaving in a manner that they would in their home cities end up in such circumstances. The entire rape incident (clearly reprehensible if true) could have been avoided if - from what I can tell from this story - the boyfriend wasn't a total dooshtard in the first place. And he thought he should kill himself in jail to save his girl? Seriously? I don't believe for one second this guy falls into the category of "normal tourist doing normal tourist things and minding own business."

Mexico's a very nice country, and Mexicans are very nice people. If you go, be on your guard, keep aware of where you visit and how you act, and generally don't be an idiot. You'll have a great time.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by J pold

... Granted my Mexican family is more on the wealthy side so I wasn't exposed to some of the stark poverty of the city.

And here I thought that Jiri was CP's only Mexican... turns out J pold is too!!

[billybob123]

Originally Posted by Pinner

IIRC there was 12,000 murders in Mexico last year

The USA had 16,000 (Mexico had 13,000). Granted, US has nearly 3x the population of Mexico.

Either way, atsa lotta murders.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders

[Mike Oxlong]

I have been to Mexico a number of times and had mixed experiences.

4 years ago we were down in Puerto Vallarta for my wedding. The first night we were down there we decided to go swimming at night in the ocean right in front of our resort. A few minutes later some cops showed up and told us to get out of the water. They gave us some BS story about how we werent allowed to be doing that and basically told us we had to pay them to be let go. We eneded up forking over about $100 american because we really had no choice. While we were waiting for our wives to go to the hotel and get the cash they pulled the same stunt on another couple on the same beach. You are powerless to these guys.

Later on the same trip some other people in our group were pulled over in their rental car for no reason, they weren't speeding or anything. The cops just knew they were tourists and again they had to pay $100 to be set free.

Cops are beyond corrupt in Mexico. I could see that guy (in the rape story)telling the cops to pound sand if they wanted some cash from him and then having things go south from there.

The rape story sounds a little extreme but I wouldn't rule it out. My best guess is that the truth lies in between both stories.

Other times I have been to Mexico and havent had any issues at all.

It certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a vacation though.
When you hear those stories about guys getting killed (by falling off his balcony) or getting beaten in the resorts there is obviously something fishy going on.

[HPLovecraft]

God damn Mexicans!

[northcrunk]

I wouldn't go to Mexico, at least not at the moment. If you looking for a good tropical vacation I suggest checking out the Dominican Republic. The people are great and the beaches are amazing.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I wouldn't go to Mexico, at least not at the moment. If you looking for a good tropical vacation I suggest checking out the Dominican Republic. The people are great and the beaches are amazing.

Mexico is so much nicer than the Dominican. I really wouldnt consider that a safer, and certainly not cleaner alternative.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I wouldn't go to Mexico, at least not at the moment. If you looking for a good tropical vacation I suggest checking out the Dominican Republic. The people are great and the beaches are amazing.

You're effing me, right? I can understand some (ignorant) hesitation about Mexico, but to then suggest the friggin Dominican? That place has been horribly unstable since their neighbour - you know, HAITI, collapsed and they have had huge problems with haitain refugees over running an already fragile country.

I would be 100x more concerned with myself in the Dominican than Mexico.

Honestly, some people needs to do three things:

1. Read a map and realize the 'murder spree' in Mexico is limited to lawless areas of the North, usually bordering the USA, and are gang wars between drug cartels.
2. Realize how heavily protected the tourist areas are in mexico - such as PV and Cancun. There are Federale check points all over (the good Mexican cops). Sure there are bad corrupt (usualyl local) cops, we've all agreed on it. If, worst case, you end up losing $100 to a corrupt cop so what? It's a small cost on the vacay. Pay it and move on. I've been many times and have never seen nor heard of such a thing happening, personally
3. Don't get drunk and lip off a Mexican cop. Filed under common sense 101