Attendance woes at the dome?!

[btimbit]

Last time I went to a game I'd never felt so ripped off in my life. It'll be a while before I spend money to go back.

If you want people to come make it worth our while and give us our moneys worth

[Yoho]

Was just in Vegas for a mid week game and it felt like it compared to a playoff game in Calgary.
It really was amazing the difference in atmosphere.

Edit: Reading the blogs here in LV the GK’s are actually on a huge blitz taking back season tickets holders seats who sell a large portion of their games.

[Toonage]

Its still new and exciting in Vegas. Wait until they've had their share of beat downs and dream crushing losses in a decade or so.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

100%

I mean, they threatened to move the night of their charity golf tournament.

Think about that for a second. How much good will was damaged from that move? Just a horrible decision on their part.

And then we were treated to GG hockey for that season and missed the playoffs.

That and the propaganda night they held during the home opener with Bill Smith Ads on the Jumbotron and around the arenas, the pie charts showing why the 3 way deal wasn't good for them.

Heck even if Ken King came out and said we want to work with the city to get this team a new home in Calgary, and I bet you'd see some more fans that were burned by the whole debacle turn the other cheek and come back.

[flamesforcup]

Good. Prices are outragous

[smiggy77]

If you're saying having a new arena will make you attend more games, you're kidding yourself. Majority of the issues is pricing and expect to see food and beverage prices jump by 50-60%.

Personally, majority will always be based on the economy. I'm a die hard Flames fan but when our property taxes, income taxes, and general pricing for consumer goods go up paired with salary rollbacks, I had to give up my season tickets because I just couldn't afford it anymore.

[Erick Estrada]

I said this last season that there would be some fallout for the poor home ice product. The Flames were unwatchable most games on home ice last season and made their product an extremely tough sell. My brother who's been a longtime season ticket holder was considering giving up the seats he's had for almost 20 years and some other long timers in his area finally bailed out due to Gulutzan hockey. His hire was very costly for the Flames.

There's more to it than just Gulutzan hockey as the Stamps have seen significant declines in attendance as well and they have had another successful season. This is the reality of a bad economy.

[TheAlpineOracle]

The PL sections are essentially empty. I was shocked last night that the entire upper bowl
Was pretty sparse with Crosby in town.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's more to it than just Gulutzan hockey as the Stamps have seen significant declines in attendance as well and they have had another successful season. This is the reality of a bad economy.

My buddy is a huge Stamps fan and his dad had season tickets for decades. He gave them up last year after yet another Grey Cup embarrassment, said there was no point in watching them win in the regular season only for the Stamps to choke in the playoffs. I imagine he isn't the only Stamps fan to feel that way

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

My buddy is a huge Stamps fan and his dad had season tickets for decades. He gave them up last year after yet another Grey Cup embarrassment, said there was no point in watching them win in the regular season only for the Stamps to choke in the playoffs. I imagine he isn't the only Stamps fan to feel that way

Yep the crushing Grey Cup defeats have been a tough pill to swallow but at least with the Stamps when you attend home games you know you are likely going to go home happy. With the Flames over the past year you know you were going to end up unhappy and that's bad for business. Unless you were a Penguins fan last night's debacle probably raised a lot of questions as to why fans bother to pay premium money for this product.

[heep223]

Y'all are grumpy as hell.

[rage2]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Good. Prices are outragous

I don't feel prices here are expensive at all. We're right in the middle of the league when it comes to ticket prices, and I know from my travels and watching hockey elsewhere that I'm paying significant less in Calgary. Edmonton is something like 60% more expensive than us on average since the new arena. Here's this year's data from a reseller, which gives a look at going rates for current season tickets:

https://www.vividseats.com/blog/nhl-ticket-prices

If we're significantly cheaper than our neighbors 300km to the north AND not selling out at similar capacity (Edmonton is ~600 lower capacity), there's a big problem with the health of our hockey market.

Last year's sales data:

https://thewincolumnblog.files.wordp...nce_poster.jpg

There's a sense from Flames fans that we're one of the strongest hockey markets in the NHL. The data doesn't show it at all.

[TurdFerguson]

I have always struggled with the value, if i'm paying personally. Hard for me to justify spending $250 - $350 for a couple decent tickets, food and a couple beers, especially for average teams on weekdays. I also don't think that a shinny new rink really matters to me.

Price increases don't help but honestly, if my whole night was $50 cheaper that doesn't really change my sentiment.

Being a top tier team probably helps the overall demand for the tickets but also probably doesn't change much for me - I just find it all very expensive for a high-frequency event.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by rage2

I don't feel prices here are expensive at all. We're right in the middle of the league when it comes to ticket prices, and I know from my travels and watching hockey elsewhere that I'm paying significant less in Calgary. Edmonton is something like 60% more expensive than us on average since the new arena. Here's this year's data from a reseller, which gives a look at going rates for current season tickets:

https://www.vividseats.com/blog/nhl-ticket-prices

If we're significantly cheaper than our neighbors 300km to the north AND not selling out at similar capacity (Edmonton is ~600 lower capacity), there's a big problem with the health of our hockey market.

Last year's sales data:

https://thewincolumnblog.files.wordp...nce_poster.jpg

There's a sense from Flames fans that we're one of the strongest hockey markets in the NHL. The data doesn't show it at all.

Just because they're in the middle of the league for pricing doesn't mean they aren't expensive. The high cost attending a hockey game is not limited to the Calgary Flames.

[Split98]

The Flames are going to have to become one of those creative teams with fan packages to bring people out to watch this. Which, I hope is a trend that keeps up as the price they want people to pay and watch a game is atrocious - in every sport.

Paying $100+ for a ticket to wander into a crowded mezzanine, watch a lazy team flop again, pay $10+ for a beer (or abandon hope trying) and then go home with the disgruntled mob you entered with isn't a whole ton of fun. Vegas and Nashville get it - the game is the reason for the event, not the event. If you're going to spend that much money, and the product is that frequently disappointing there better be an experience to rival everything else I could have done with that time and money.

Professional sports are going to be in serious trouble very soon because of this. We live in a world where our entertainment dollar has a lot more places to go, and the skyrocketing classic entertainment is building itself up more and more for a big fall. I personally don't see the new arena (and the following price increase) as a good long-term thing for the Flames and hockey if the games are run as they are today. I don't know if the answer is a flashy arena or a refurbished Saddledome (without the ticket price increase) - but one way or another teams are going to need to realize that selling 80% of the arena isn't the worst-case scenario.

How many people left a 9-1 thumping more upset with the money they paid than the loss itself? I think even if I am still a passionate enough fan to dump more and more into this 'entertainment' I'll be doing so alone very soon. If you look around at the people in the arena, ask yourself if any of them would want to spend the same if not less money socializing with the same people and having more fun... or, are they there because the Flames are there? Let's be honest, the dedication we have really only runs through a small portion of the people at games. Most are there to be entertained, not specifically because they want to watch a Flames game.

As Textcritic pointed out a while ago, VR is something anyone in the entertainment industry should be very worried about. And I think overpriced games that far under-deliver (like the majority of Flames home games) are going to be one of the first things to go in the new era of entertainment. Arenas at 80% capacity might be the fear now, but that's pretty high when you think of how much fun a Senators game really is. I don't know who's going to those games at all really.

The enormous player salaries and the towns arenas they're building has to be paid somehow, and I'm not sure how many people will want to keep funding it. But cut it out with the beer gouging for starters (how every arena in NA gets away with this is ludicrous). They need to start treating their fans like valued customers, instead of pesky wallets. I didn't watch the 2nd onwards last night, and likely won't watch too much of the Washington game. I find entertainment elsewhere already, so it's not tough to think that I'll so something else when you're shoving a $200-$400 bill at me.

[Flash Walken]

Even the most resilient businesses cannot continue to outpace incompetent management.

Declining ticket sales and declining "give a ####" quotient among locals has it's roots in decisions made 10-15 years ago.

Since the 04 lockout the flames are 19th in the league in wins, 16th in goals for, 22nd in playoff games played and 23rd in playoff goals scored, one spot b hind th freaking oilers.

Reap what you sow.

[White Out 403]

Flames ownership and management, alongside the rest of Canadian markets, have taken fans for granted. When you look at what the American teams do for their season ticket holders and compare it to what's up here it's no shock that fans are starting to stay away. There was a lot of good will and banked enthusiasm across the city and country after the 04 cup run for hockey in Canada. I think the Flames and Oilers cup runs also help to light a fire under people in Winnipeg to want the Jets back. It was a great time for the NHL in Canada.

So ownership being the rich greedy ####s they are across Canada, do they enjoy this new interest by treating ST like gold? No, they jack up prices every year, charge insane money for concessions and parking, and do very few things for ST holders in terms of give aways and bonuses.

Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa are all having attendance issues and if the Jets weren't considered a contender I'm sure they'd have issues this year too. The ticket prices for last years West Final were so onerous we didn't even sell them out. Greed disgusts me and the Canadian owners were pigs at the trough last 15 years.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I tracked attendance for a bit in a thread last year as I wondered "will attendance be down - are we just a few years behind the Senators?" However, I lost interest pretty quick as attendance was fairly stable vs the year prior.

However, thus far this season, it certainly looks like attendance is going to be down considerably vs last season. Even more so when you consider each of the four games so far have been big draws (home opener, Boston, Nashville on Friday night, Crosby show). I imagine much of this was impact of the Gully Gong Show. It will be worth tracking!

Calgary Attendance Tracker by game (2018-19)
1) 18,866 (98%)
2) 17,641 (91%)
3) 18,725 (97%)
4) 17,834 (92%)

Calgary Attendance Tracker by Year (capacity is 19,289)
2013-14 - 19,302 (100%)
2014-15 - 19,097 (99%)
2015-16 - 19,145 (99%)
2016-17 - 18,727 (97%)
2017-18 - 18,905 (98%)
2018-19 - 18,222 (94%)

Ottawa Attendance Tracker by Year (capacity is 18,502)
2013-14 - 18,108 (98%)
2014-15 - 18,246 (99%)
2015-16 - 18,084 (98%)
2016-17 - 16,744 (90%)
2017-18 - 15,829 (86%)
2018-19 - 15,082 (82%)

Two weekend games look like they were highly attended, and only one Canadian team through the Dome so far this year (on top of it only being 4 games). I'd say it's a little early to be suggesting attendance will be down this year. Your stats only suggest it will be down marginally at most, and I actually disagree with your assessment that we'd had a lot of big draws. Most of the Big draws that will end up bolstering the overall yearly average are still to come. Saturday nights and Canadian teams are the biggest draw, and we've only had one of those each night.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Flames ownership and management, alongside the rest of Canadian markets, have taken fans for granted. When you look at what the American teams do for their season ticket holders and compare it to what's up here it's no shock that fans are starting to stay away. There was a lot of good will and banked enthusiasm across the city and country after the 04 cup run for hockey in Canada. I think the Flames and Oilers cup runs also help to light a fire under people in Winnipeg to want the Jets back. It was a great time for the NHL in Canada.

So ownership being the rich greedy ####s they are across Canada, do they enjoy this new interest by treating ST like gold? No, they jack up prices every year, charge insane money for concessions and parking, and do very few things for ST holders in terms of give aways and bonuses.

Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa are all having attendance issues and if the Jets weren't considered a contender I'm sure they'd have issues this year too. The ticket prices for last years West Final were so onerous we didn't even sell them out. Greed disgusts me and the Canadian owners were pigs at the trough last 15 years.

They sure have been. And with all your loyalty to the team, they'll threaten to move them elsewhere if they detect you're unsatisfied with their product.

From a purely business and consumer perspective, I can't wait for this to crumble. As a fan of the game, I'm sad that this is where we're at.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Split98

They sure have been. And with all your loyalty to the team, they'll threaten to move them elsewhere if they detect you're unsatisfied with their product.

From a purely business and consumer perspective, I can't wait for this to crumble. As a fan of the game, I'm sad that this is where we're at.

So would it be safe to say from a purely business and consumer perspective the Flames would be licking thier lips for relocation?