Iginla: Hockey is better and safer with fighting in it

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The same players who didn't want helmets in the game as being mandatory?
Sorry I don't really care at all what the players say about this issue. No one can argue that fighting in the NHL prevents more injuries because fighting has always been in the NHL.

Im sorry but that is just absurd.

If ANYONE, in the entire debate would have an idea of what eliminating fighting would do to other aspects of the game, it's going to be the very guys who would be operating under those changes.

More than that however, there are already examples of leagues where fighting isnt prevalent, and they are well known for dirty and sometimes dangerous stick play.

Hate fighting all you like and wish it be gone from the NHL if you are concerned about players health, but when players themselves weigh in on the topic (particularly one as well spoken and respected as Iginla) saying it doesnt matter what they say just makes your argument irrelevant. No one knows better.

[JiriHrdina]

The players have been playing in this culture their entire lives. They don't know anything else.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The players have been playing in this culture their entire lives. They don't know anything else.

And someone who has been part of the culture/sport knows better?

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

If a weasel like Burrows or Cooke comes out and says they thought better of a hack or idiot play for fear of being beaten up it might mean something. I don't buy it.

Guys who fight saying they like fighting.... Well duh.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by DOOM

And someone who has been part of the culture/sport knows better?

I would look to the opinion of former players and others involved in the game who have shown an ability to see the gsme from a macro level: Bowman, Dryden, Holland, Gretzky...guys like that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im sorry but that is just absurd.

If ANYONE, in the entire debate would have an idea of what eliminating fighting would do to other aspects of the game, it's going to be the very guys who would be operating under those changes...

Sure, but how many of the players know any different? The vast majority grew up in the same culture, and have NO experience outside of it. Can we really trust that their opinions are informed if they are so internally prejudiced?

Originally Posted by transplant99

Hate fighting all you like and wish it be gone from the NHL if you are concerned about players health, but when players themselves weigh in on the topic (particularly one as well spoken and respected as Iginla) saying it doesnt matter what they say just makes your argument irrelevant. No one knows better.

I agree. No one knows better, but that's not to say that ANYONE really knows enough about this issue to make an informed decision about it. Raising questions about fighting in hockey is entirely legitimate, since there isn't nearly enough information about the impact of fighting, and practically NO information about how different the game would be without it.

[GirlySports]

With the speed of the game I cant see how players can tell if the hit is clean or not. You see your teammate down.. just go fight.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by kn

I also don't know how two goons having to fight makes another player accountable.

It makes the goon accountable. Not saying I like staged fights, but I think it has a place in the game right now. Let's face it, most team's enforcers feel like they are in the lineup to run around, lay some big hits, protect teammates, and fight. They get that big hit in and get into a fight and they know they've done their job for that night. When you have that mindset, what do you do when the other team doesn't have an enforcer? Play nice? No. You run around trying to do your thing until someone is willing to fight you. If no one does you continue to try to cause havoc. That's why most respectable enforcers looks to fight the other team's enforcers rather than pick fights with other guys. It's an acknowledgement that they both have a job to do.

[Northendzone]

So if we remove fights that start after a clean, and the staged goon show, it seems we are left with:

1. Fights that start from the heat of the moment 1 on 1 battle
2. Fights that start after a player a takes a liberty with player b

I don't mind fights that start from column 1, but when was the last time a player like, Cooke really had to fight someone? He has a long history of dirty hits, which iggy says fight prevents, but yet I don't recall seeing him answer the bell......

[BBQorMILDEW]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I would look to the opinion of former players and others involved in the game who have shown an ability to see the gsme from a macro level: Bowman, Dryden, Holland, Gretzky...guys like that.

And each of those people you mentioned, all won a cup with a bunch of fighters on there team.

hmmmm

I think perhaps, we should eliminate hitting as well? Or make the boards out of Styrofoam? That would stop injuries no?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

They can't totally prevent fighting, they can only determine what kind of penalties are handed out afterwards.

I don't mind the odd tussle in the heat of the battle, but I'm pretty sick of staged fighting and goons in the league that play 5 minutes a game and don't really add much to the sport.

And I'll echo what has already been said about fights after clean hits, can't stand those, either.

But Iggy vs. Vinny fights during a battle in the playoffs? Don't have an issue with stuff like that.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by BBQorMILDEW

And each of those people you mentioned, all won a cup with a bunch of fighters on there team.

hmmmm

I think perhaps, we should eliminate hitting as well? Or make the boards out of Styrofoam? That would stop injuries no?

And this is when the argument gets silly by somehow jumping to nonsensical suggestions

[BBQorMILDEW]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And this is when the argument gets silly by somehow jumping to nonsensical suggestions

Touché

My bad.

I just can't see how anyone who lives and breathes hockey, can say that they don't like a good scrap? It brings the crowd to it's feet, brings electricity to a boring game.

The NHL isn't the Olympics, it's a watered down version. Not every team is going to have Ryan Getzlaf as the third line center.

[Azure]

Agree/disagree with him, Jarome knows what he's talking about.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

There's always going to be people who just want to put hockey down no matter how little they know about the sport. The easiest argument to make is Fighting.

Show me a single fan of hockey who didn't approve of Iginla Vs. Lecavlier.

Fighting does belong in this testosterone filled game and I haven't heard any hockey analyst, player or coach say otherwise. The media has nothing else to talk about at this time so why not start some controversy and make it sound like a debate. Thats what's really going on right now and the discussion has spread to discussion forums. Not much to discuss though as this topic is fairly open and shut.

[puckluck2]

The idea that players know what's best for them is borderline ######ed.

Look no further than your average Joe working at a warehouse. He should know better because he works at a warehouse right? Now go to any warehouse and give them the option to not wear a hardhat, safety glasses or steel toe boots and I can personally guarantee you 99% would show up in running shoes with no safety gear at all BUT it's their job they should know better right?

It is also the job of doctors and scientists to figure out blows to the head have extreme consequences.

I know what side I'm on.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Sorry, I don't really care at all what random internet posters say about this issue. They have about zero credibility when they so easily dismiss what credible players say who actually have experience in the game they play.

I completely disagree with these "You've never played" arguments. I've never been a Member of Parliament, but I've got a perspective on politics in this country. Should I not be allowed to voice my opinion because I've never actually participated in HOC debates?

My point is that you can actually have a reasonable opinion about something without having to be continually immersed in it. And, as TextCritic and Jiri have both excellently pointed out, it is also possible for the reverse to be true--that one could be 100% involved in something and have a completely irrelevant and incorrect perspective.

Iginla is a tough player, and we all love him. But he can still be wrong about fighting. As I mentioned in the other thread on this (Burke's comments about this topic), if fighting were as effective as Iginla argues, one would think that the instances of "dirty play" would already be in decline. Yet debates about how to rid the NHL of such play remains an annual discussion.

As TextCritic has also pointed out in previous posts, statements like the one Iginla made are not necessarily supported by evidence. Iginla's assertion could very well be true. The problem is that we have no way of knowing because fighting has never not been a part of the NHL. It also doesn't mean that fighting is the only solution to eliminating dirty play.

I believe that Jiri said it in the other thread, but it bears reiterating: the NHL has the means to eliminate dirty play by enforcing the rules that already exist. Who's to say that harsher suspensions would not have at least the same effect on curtailing dirty play than fighting? The reason fighting gets a pass is because it's entrenched in NHL 'culture'. I'm arguing that it's a relic and that the NHL would not suffer with its elimination.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

The idea that players know what's best for them is borderline ######ed.

Look no further than your average Joe working at a warehouse. He should know better because he works at a warehouse right? Now go to any warehouse and give them the option to not wear a hardhat, safety glasses or steel toe boots and I can personally guarantee you 99% would show up in running shoes with no safety gear at all BUT it's their job they should know better right?

It is also the job of doctors and scientists to figure out blows to the head have extreme consequences.

I know what side I'm on.

Yes, I am sure Iginla needs doctors and scientists to tell him this..

[JobHopper]

Jarome's a real beauty.

[minnow]

Well put Iggy.