05-26-2024, 11:21 AM
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#21
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone
Waste of a 5th in a very Treliving-ish trade. Don’t go down this death by a thousand cuts path again, Flames.
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So never trade a draft pick? Ever?
Clearly they felt the player had value that exceeded the value of a 5th round pick so they made the move.
You don't want them making said moves if they feel they're adding value? Or are you saying they knew the player wouldn't work out and they were moving the pick for kicks?
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05-26-2024, 11:23 AM
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#22
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Who?
Okay.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something. - The Dread Pirate Roberts
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05-26-2024, 11:28 AM
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#23
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Franchise Player
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He is a very good skater so I can see why they wanted to give him a try, but he had a hard time reading plays and playing within the system.
__________________
Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
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05-26-2024, 11:42 AM
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#24
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
So never trade a draft pick? Ever?
Clearly they felt the player had value that exceeded the value of a 5th round pick so they made the move.
You don't want them making said moves if they feel they're adding value? Or are you saying they knew the player wouldn't work out and they were moving the pick for kicks?
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In this case I don't think that they had enough time to see what the player is. It's compounded by him only playing in 9 games.
I think it would've been a good add in a vacuum. If the Flames didn't just add Pachal, Hanley, Miromanov, Grushnikov, Brzustewicz, and Jurmo, to a prospect pool that already had Poirier, Kuznetsov, and Solovyov. All those players are either in the NHL or are going to be fighting for a spot on the 3rd pairing as soon as next year.
Last edited by gvitaly; 05-26-2024 at 11:45 AM.
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05-26-2024, 11:56 AM
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#25
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Indiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
So never trade a draft pick? Ever?
Clearly they felt the player had value that exceeded the value of a 5th round pick so they made the move.
You don't want them making said moves if they feel they're adding value? Or are you saying they knew the player wouldn't work out and they were moving the pick for kicks?
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And they were wrong. It was not good value. Thus, it was a bad trade.
The Flames should reflect on this and avoid this mistake from happening again in the future. Pro scouting is always an area that can improve.
It's fine to take swings. But if you miss, it was a bad swing. But at least it can be a learning opportunity.
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05-26-2024, 12:20 PM
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#26
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#1 Goaltender
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It’s more concerning that our scouts even identified this guy
Saw nothing but glaringly awful shifts out there. Wasn’t even physical. Lots of bad pinches
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05-26-2024, 12:30 PM
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#27
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
And they were wrong. It was not good value. Thus, it was a bad trade.
The Flames should reflect on this and avoid this mistake from happening again in the future. Pro scouting is always an area that can improve.
It's fine to take swings. But if you miss, it was a bad swing. But at least it can be a learning opportunity.
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I disagree (clearly).
He's a player they identified.
The cost wasn't high.
They thought it was a good gamble.
If you see everything as black and white as you do ... didn't turn out, bad trade ... you won't do another one, and that's not the way to run a hockey team.
I doubt anyone internally said this is a can't miss, future top four, and "they only want a 5th for him?!"
They felt he had upside and it was worth the gamble.
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05-26-2024, 12:35 PM
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#28
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo45
It’s more concerning that our scouts even identified this guy
Saw nothing but glaringly awful shifts out there. Wasn’t even physical. Lots of bad pinches
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Guessing it's Denis Grebeshkov as the scout.
He was likely behind the Miromanov add, the Grushnikov add, and potentially had something to do with adding Kuzmenko.
Miromanov seems like a win.
Ohotiuk looks like a loss.
They are low odd bets. Getting one or two of them right is proof of the process working in my mind.
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05-26-2024, 12:38 PM
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#29
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Calgary
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If the Flames used a 5th round pick to draft a defenseman that went on to play 67 NHL games before he returned to Russia as a 23-year old while the Flames still retained his rights, that would be a huge win for that pick.
But the Flames traded a draft pick for the exact scenario above so it's a terrible mistake because....reasons.
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05-26-2024, 12:40 PM
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#30
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First Line Centre
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Think of it as a prospect who needs 2 more years in the minors, instead of playing in the AHL, he plays in the KHL...
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05-26-2024, 01:13 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
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One Flames 5th round pick has played NHL games in the last 14 years - Michael Ferland in 2010.
Before that, you have to go all the way back to Travis Moen in 2000.
Unbunch your collective panties.
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05-26-2024, 01:15 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazypucker
Think of it as a prospect who needs 2 more years in the minors, instead of playing in the AHL, he plays in the KHL...
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Except...on the tail-end of that isnt he going to be like 29/30? Thats 'career-over' age.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something. - The Dread Pirate Roberts
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05-26-2024, 01:22 PM
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#33
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: I don't belong here
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People are upset over trading a 5th round pick? A 5th round pick? That's being petty.
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05-26-2024, 01:28 PM
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#34
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All I can get
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Former second rounder: Was always going to be a reclamation project.
Sometimes they work out, but more often they don't. Wasn't a high price.
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05-26-2024, 01:34 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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So this player I've never heard of and can't spell...but should I be sharpening the pitch-forks and fueling the torches and arranging a march to Conroy's house?
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something. - The Dread Pirate Roberts
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05-26-2024, 01:38 PM
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#36
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop
Former second rounder: Was always going to be a reclamation project.
Sometimes they work out, but more often they don't. Wasn't a high price.
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It’s the very definition of what people mean when they want to take a flyer or kick the tires on someone. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t. There was a pretty good chance that they were going to try and sneak him down through waivers at the beginning of the season. Now instead, he goes to Russia where he might develop.
A 5th rounder isn’t too much to risk. Whether it’s making the pick or trading it for reclamation player to audition, it’s still basically throwing a dart at the dartboard.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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05-26-2024, 01:41 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
So this player I've never heard of and can't spell...but should I be sharpening the pitch-forks and fueling the torches and arranging a march to Conroy's house?
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For some, it is the CP way…or I hope the CP way and not the way they live their entire life.
__________________
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05-26-2024, 01:42 PM
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#38
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Richmond upon Thames, London
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Not even sweating this. Every move is a gamble.
Just try to limit how frequently these later picks get away from you for no return.
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05-26-2024, 01:46 PM
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#39
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FurnaceFace
For some, it is the CP way…or I hope the CP way and not the way they live their entire life.
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People just have no appreciation for the costs of pitch-fork sharpening and the outrageous increase in prices for torch oil.
You really need to budget your riots these days or the costs can get out of hand.
Dont even get me started on catering costs!
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something. - The Dread Pirate Roberts
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05-26-2024, 02:01 PM
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#40
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Section 120
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Based on my quick analysis of the draft, about 1-2 players each draft in the 5th round turn into an impact NHLer. It’s probably a 5% chance a 5th rounder turns into an impact NHLer but as a fan you feel like your 5th could be the one to get Kucherov or Johnny but chances are extremely low.
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