HockeyFuture ranks Calgary prospect pool #2

[Drury18]

I have to respectfully disagree with those saying Reinhart has regressed in his development. Last year Reinhart was the team leader in the AHL for points and broke the Heat's franchise records. He ended the season on a hot streak and was easily the best player on the team when the regular season ended. The management complimented his full game and hockey IQ and how he progressed over the last year, so I don't think he's regressed. Definitely a bit of a slow start to this season (as did the rest of the team) but I don't think regression should be thrown around.

My issue with the list is the inclusion of Baertschi and how high they still want to rank him. He's had a number of players leapfrog him. He is not prospect #3. Granlund should be higher up, Poirier should be included and Wotherspoon deserves a spot as well. Those are our NHL ready and mostly likely to produce prospects. Baertschi and Reinhart should be sitting maybe 6 or 7 on the list, not 2 or 3.

[Mony]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Will be fun to read the anger posts from other fan bases as they try to argue that the Flames shouldn't be ranked so highly.

Surprisingly not much hate, yet. But it's always hilarious seeing people get pissed about how high we are on the list. Some of the comments that were made when we were at #6 last year were funny.

If we can grab some good RW prospects and get some more D I think we'll cross over from very good to excellent. Our center depth is astounding right now.

[AC]

I am seriously enjoying the fact that all 3 Reinhart brothers are in the top 5 rankings of the #1, #2, and #3 teams!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by getbak

Granlund isn't in your top 10?

Oops, so easy to forget one.

Tough call for me whether to put him ahead of, or behind, Jooris.

Yes, he has more talent and a great shot, I just think he is in a tougher spot to earn real NHL time because Jooris is fighting for (already established?) a bottom 6 role while he needs to find a middle 6 role.

So... Poirier, Jooris, Granlund, Ferland I guess (though in reality, order doesn't mean anything)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think Van Ba Brant will see a call up later this year, as it seems like he is having a great season.

I'd also list Seiloff ahead of Arnold.

I just want to see some actual playing time results from him first

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I have to respectfully disagree with those saying Reinhart has regressed in his development. Last year Reinhart was the team leader in the AHL for points and broke the Heat's franchise records. He ended the season on a hot streak and was easily the best player on the team when the regular season ended. The management complimented his full game and hockey IQ and how he progressed over the last year, so I don't think he's regressed. Definitely a bit of a slow start to this season (as did the rest of the team) but I don't think regression should be thrown around.

My issue with the list is the inclusion of Baertschi and how high they still want to rank him. He's had a number of players leapfrog him. He is not prospect #3. Granlund should be higher up, Poirier should be included and Wotherspoon deserves a spot as well. Those are our NHL ready and mostly likely to produce prospects. Baertschi and Reinhart should be sitting maybe 6 or 7 on the list, not 2 or 3.

I think your Baertschi argument though is a bit wrong. Only because I think the ratings are not just about current development, but also potential. While that is certainly subjective, he's only just-turned 22 and did incredible things as a 19 year old. If we're looking at a snapshot of where they are now, I'd agree with you

[mile]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I have to respectfully disagree with those saying Reinhart has regressed in his development. Last year Reinhart was the team leader in the AHL for points and broke the Heat's franchise records. He ended the season on a hot streak and was easily the best player on the team when the regular season ended. The management complimented his full game and hockey IQ and how he progressed over the last year, so I don't think he's regressed. Definitely a bit of a slow start to this season (as did the rest of the team) but I don't think regression should be thrown around.

My issue with the list is the inclusion of Baertschi and how high they still want to rank him. He's had a number of players leapfrog him. He is not prospect #3. Granlund should be higher up, Poirier should be included and Wotherspoon deserves a spot as well. Those are our NHL ready and mostly likely to produce prospects. Baertschi and Reinhart should be sitting maybe 6 or 7 on the list, not 2 or 3.

I said this in the back burner - regression is the wrong word to use with Reinhart, it's just that his upside was never as high as some may have viewed it to be. I see him as a probable third liner rather than a top six forward (although you probably disagree with this.) Being the highest Flames draft pick in 2010, combined with good junior stats and a weaker prospect pool back then made it easy to overrate him like HF did back then. With that being said I do like him and think he is progressing fine, he'll certainly be an NHLer.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think your Baertschi argument though is a bit wrong. Only because I think the ratings are not just about current development, but also potential. While that is certainly subjective, he's only just-turned 22 and did incredible things as a 19 year old. If we're looking at a snapshot of where they are now, I'd agree with you

I was taking into account future development and I still think that Poirier and Wotherspoon have a better upside then Sven at this time. Both are going forward, Baertschi is going backwards. Yes, Baertschi is only 22 and plenty of time to develop, but you can't turn a blind eye to the fact he's sliding backwards. That's great he had a few good games as a 19 year old. What has he done to show that wasn't a fluke? He's not showing great strides in improvement, he's not showing that he's getting better. His confidence issues are really an issue and again, yes he's young, but the argument that he's young runs out at some point. He's in his 3rd professional season and a 1st round pick, we can start being realistic now that things aren't working out as planned and that people have passed him on the chart. Frankly, the fact that we have to defend and almost make excuses for him as to why he should still be a top prospect tells me he doesn't belong up there anymore. He could be good, he could smarten up, he could end up the player we thought he was, but this is the same thing we were saying a few years ago when he first started dropping off.

[GioforPM]

It's pretty easy to slot the prospects with the big exception being Sven. I honestly can't say where he ends up, although obviously not on a checking line.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's pretty easy to slot the prospects with the big exception being Sven. I honestly can't say where he ends up, although obviously not on a checking line.

Isn't he playing on a checking line right now with Jooris and Byron? I would call the Monahan, and Granlund lines our scoring lines with the Jooris and Bouma lines as our checking lines

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Isn't he playing on a checking line right now with Jooris and Byron? I would call the Monahan, and Granlund lines our scoring lines with the Jooris and Bouma lines as our checking lines

I don't think it works that way for the Flames. Checking lines traditionally checked the better offensive players on the other team. Monahan has been doing that.

I'd call them an energy line, for want of a better description.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'd call them an energy line, for want of a better description.

What they really are is an odds-and-sods line: players you want in the lineup, but who aren't quite good enough at their particular roles (at least for now) to crack the top 9. Traditionally you fill those spots with youth if you've got it, bruisers and bangers if you haven't, or some combination of the two.

By the way, I laughed when I saw those HF reports. Year after year, they said the team didn't have a good puck-moving defenceman in the system; but year after year, they listed T. J. Brodie as one of the top prospects. Oops.

(Saying the team hasn't got a good puck-moving D prospect this year is fair, since Brodie has well and truly graduated. But with Brodie, Giordano, Russell, and Wideman in the lineup, it's likely to be a little while before the Flames need another player of that type.)

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

What they really are is an odds-and-sods line: players you want in the lineup, but who aren't quite good enough at their particular roles (at least for now) to crack the top 9. Traditionally you fill those spots with youth if you've got it, bruisers and bangers if you haven't, or some combination of the two.

By the way, I laughed when I saw those HF reports. Year after year, they said the team didn't have a good puck-moving defenceman in the system; but year after year, they listed T. J. Brodie as one of the top prospects. Oops.

(Saying the team hasn't got a good puck-moving D prospect this year is fair, since Brodie has well and truly graduated. But with Brodie, Giordano, Russell, and Wideman in the lineup, it's likely to be a little while before the Flames need another player of that type.)

I was just going to post exactly the same thing. It just goes to show that "potential" rankings only give part of the story, just ask Gio!

Brodie has slowly become one of my favorite Flames, on this curve I think his name will be mentioned among the best in the league for years to come. I mentioned it in the Game Takes thread from last game but just watching him double shift in the first after the Gio injury gave me chills. Left side one shift, right side next shift, 30 second shift break and repeat. Just goes to show you can't tell always predict how a player will turn out.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Ryan Culkin doesn't get as much press as he probably should at the moment. 8 points in his first 9 AHL games as a rookie. I know we talk about our lack of depth at D, and compared to our forwards it probably is but with Wotherspoon, Sieloff and Culkin I think we've got some decent prospects on D currently on the farm. Maybe a silly point as well but forwards should be wear you have the most depth, you only need 6 blueliners compared to 12 NHL forwards.

Also the new coach in the AHL, Ryan Huska, was a monster at producing defenceman for Kelowna in the WHL, Shea Weber, Josh Georges, Duncan Keith, Alex Edler, Luke Scheen, Tyler Myers, Tyson Barrie... it'll be interesting to see how good he is at developing these guys for us down there.

[Bezer]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Ryan Culkin doesn't get as much press as he probably should at the moment. 8 points in his first 9 AHL games as a rookie. I know we talk about our lack of depth at D, and compared to our forwards it probably is but with Wotherspoon, Sieloff and Culkin I think we've got some decent prospects on D currently on the farm. Maybe a silly point as well but forwards should be wear you have the most depth, you only need 6 blueliners compared to 12 NHL forwards.

Also the new coach in the AHL, Ryan Huska, was a monster at producing defenceman for Kelowna in the WHL, Shea Weber, Josh Georges, Duncan Keith, Alex Edler, Luke Scheen, Tyler Myers, Tyson Barrie... it'll be interesting to see how good he is at developing these guys for us down there.

Great point about Culkin.. I find myself writing him off due to his pedigree. But he was very good at training camp and seems like a solid prospect. I am sure most know this but he is the 5th round pick from the Cammy/Bourque trade.

That trade ended up being Bourque(AHL) a 2nd (Zach Fucale) and Patrick Holland(Traded to Winnipeg) for Cammy, Ramo and Culkin(5th rounder).. not looking too bad at the moment.

But to the point of the thread, that's all fine and dandy that we are ranked that high but I don't put much stock into it as I did when we were ranked on the lower end of the scale a few years back.

That being said we have certainly seen the pay off of drafting well and not trading our picks away.

[#-3]

Putting HF boards aside, and just focusing on the prospect ratings, I think they are pretty good. The focus on ~900+ prospects spread across the entire northern hemisphere, that turn over every 3 -5 years. Are they going to miss the mark of a few guys, yes. But also remember they are projections of potential, not opinions on what players will end up being. The word "potential" strictly implies ratings will not be 100% accurate.

Looking at Devo22 posts, maybe there is an argument for 2012, but did they really underrate the Flames prospect pool at anytime? I think its a fact that the Flames had one of the worst prospect pools in the league 5 years ago, and that they have steadily rose to one of the best prospect pools in the league. HF's reporting seems pretty bang on in the general trend of the Flames organization.

To add more credibility for them, I think they always had a few teams ranked ahead of the Oilers even in the "Smothing Special" days. Citing overall lack of depth and diversity in prospect pool.

[ComixZone]

2nd best prospect pool...



...and we have gigantic amounts of cap-space?...



...and we're currently 8th in the league standings?

[TjRhythmic]

Originally Posted by flameswin

This thread was created because they accurately rated the Flames prospect pool as being one of the best in the league. Or do you just mean in general?

IMO I think he means, that a generational talent could end up in Edmonton, meaning the future of hockey is no good.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Cube, does it appear that Buffalo's prospects are being properly developed? From an outsider looking in, they seem to be bringing their guys up slowly now, which I think is the right way. Does Nolan seem to be the guy to keep around the youth?

Last year was pretty rough but this year has been better. They're keeping a lot of the guys away from this tire fire right now -- Reinhart back to juniors, Grigorenko and Armia in the AHL even though they look great. The young players that are on the team like Girgensons and Ristolainen have been some of the very few bright spots this season.

As for Nolan, I see him as a bit of a fall guy. Keep him around for these disaster seasons, then when they think things might start turning around (maybe as early as next season), Murray will can him and bring in the guy he wants as coach.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And Jooris has screamed past a bunch of guys. For me, it's:

Gaudreau
Bennett
Baertschi
Poirier
Jooris
Ferland
Wotherspoon
Klimchuk
Reinhart
Arnold

as a top ten at this point in time

(even though Jooris has solidified himself as a legitimate NHLer, I still think Baertschi and Poirier have enough upside to be listed ahead of him)

Which makes our list all the more funny with Jooris way down in 35th!

1. Gaudreau - 61.41%
2. Bennett - - 87.44%
3. Baertschi - 58.47%
4. Poirier - 61.61%
5. Granlund - 56.39%
6. Klimchuk - 43.53%
7. Wotherspoon - 49.15%
8. Reinhart - 28.86%
9. Ortio - Runoff over Gillies
10. Gillies - Loser of Runoff
11. Jankowski - 51.49%
12. Sieloff - 38.55%
13. Arnold - 46.44%
14. Knight (tie)
15. Ferland (tie)
16. Kulak - 47.67%
17. Agostino - 43.13%
18. Smith - Run off Over McDonald
19. McDonald - 50.77%
20. Kanzig - 34.05%
21. Culkin - 37.57%
22. Wolf - 33.66%
23. Hickey - 42.86%
24. Ollas Mattson - 35.27%
25. Ben Hanowski - 33.55%
26. Rushan Rafikov - 53.57%
27. Bryce Van Brabant - 23.93%
28. Eric Roy - 28.05%
29. Mark Cundari - 29.94%
30. John Gilmour - 41.82%
31. John Ramage - 45.83%
32. Tim Harrison - 41.03%
33. Austin Carroll - 32.43%
34. Chad Billins - 41.84%
35. Josh Jooris - 43.24%
35. Sena Acolatse - 41.44%
37. Matt Deblouw - 45.98%
38. Turner Elson
39. Brad Thiessen

Honestly tells me to be a little wary of Jooris and his burst ... doesn't really add up. I think he's an NHLer now, but not a 60 point player.