Kananaskis Logging: Planned West Bragg Creek & Moose Mountain Clearcut

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

I gots this!

I'll gladly donate a pic-a-nic basket or two to the cause.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Less trees for Trudeau to burn down

I thought it was Jewish Space Lasers? o.0

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's easy enough to say this is all nimbyism, but when you actually look at the issues, you'd have to be a fool to not step back and wonder WTF is in it for Albertans and what the net benefit actually is, and who gets it. If it was true nimbyism, they would have this kind of objection for every area they log. But they don't, which should be an indication that people protesting are reasonable, and they might just maybe have a point about this one.

Well, this isn’t totally right. If it was coming from an environmentalist perspective, they’d probably have this kind of objection for every area. But it makes complete sense from a nimbyism perspective to take issue with this and not others. It’s the whole concept of it, not in my backyard. This, for a lot of people, is their “backyard” (a recreational area for them) but it’s not meaningfully better or worse than other areas because of that.

You brought up a bunch of other, more important issues regarding what they’re doing (for the record I’m opposed to this clear cutting), I just think the complaints of “well we go hiking here!” are really dumb when… you know… animals actually live in these places and there are concerns about floods and fires and all that to consider. Like… people hike… who cares.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Well, this isn’t totally right. If it was coming from an environmentalist perspective, they’d probably have this kind of objection for every area. But it makes complete sense from a nimbyism perspective to take issue with this and not others. It’s the whole concept of it, not in my backyard. This, for a lot of people, is their “backyard” (a recreational area for them) but it’s not meaningfully better or worse than other areas because of that.

You brought up a bunch of other, more important issues regarding what they’re doing (for the record I’m opposed to this clear cutting), I just think the complaints of “well we go hiking here!” are really dumb when… you know… animals actually live in these places and there are concerns about floods and fires and all that to consider. Like… people hike… who cares.

Well the people who hike, bike, and horseback ride sure care, particularly after spending decades building the trails. I think distilling the complaints to NIMBYism is just a way for people to dismiss it because they don't go there. So I think it's a disingenuous label to be throwing around in this case.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well the people who hike, bike, and horseback ride sure care, particularly after spending decades building the trails. I think distilling the complaints to NIMBYism is just a way for people to dismiss it because they don't go there. So I think it's a disingenuous label to be throwing around in this case.

Holy fata, you two disagree on something?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Holy fata, you two disagree on something?

Pepsi is right about a lot of things, but sometimes I need to step in and correct him. It's a process.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Sounds like a job for CP's own forest ranger accountant!

Now! Someone put a Park Ranger's Hat on my Avatar!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

Now! Someone put a Park Ranger's Hat on my Avatar!

[cam_wmh]

Clearcut it, and build a ski hill.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well the people who hike, bike, and horseback ride sure care, particularly after spending decades building the trails. I think distilling the complaints to NIMBYism is just a way for people to dismiss it because they don't go there. So I think it's a disingenuous label to be throwing around in this case.

I get what you’re saying, I just don’t think it’s as clear cut (lol) as you think it is. There is definitely some flavour of selfishness to it. Like the whole “go do it over there, not over here”/“it’s fine that I use this area for what I want but they shouldn’t change it because they want something different” thing is weird to me.

I don’t think it’s disingenuous just because some people don’t like to be called NIMBY. I’m fine for people to reject this on actual grounds (like you already did, like I said), but it’s the whole “do it somewhere I don’t have to look at it” thing that’s really stupid to me. That’s just NIMBY stuff.

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I get what you’re saying, I just don’t think it’s as clear cut (lol) as you think it is. There is definitely some flavour of selfishness to it. Like the whole “go do it over there, not over here”/“it’s fine that I use this area for what I want but they shouldn’t change it because they want something different” thing is weird to me.

I don’t think it’s disingenuous just because some people don’t like to be called NIMBY. I’m fine for people to reject this on actual grounds (like you already did, like I said), but it’s the whole “do it somewhere I don’t have to look at it” thing that’s really stupid to me. That’s just NIMBY stuff.

Do you use the area for recreation? If not, maybe take your opinion elsewhere. We don’t need it.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Clearcut it, and build a ski hill.

They already tried with Wintergreen. I can't imagine one on Moose Mountain would be any better.

[troutman]

The area should be restricted to catch and release fly-fishers only.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

shipped to the States, were Fraser is based.

They simply don't care about anything but the bottom line, similar to a Canadian company clearing land in Brazil. It's just too far away to ever really effect them.

If it makes you feel any better, West Fraser is based in BC, notable home of environmentalists who want other people to change as long as it doesn't affect them (eg Selenium coal mines).

In fact, the "Fraser" in their name refers to the Fraser river.

[8sPOT]

How about cut down the trees up north that burn all year round anyways. Two birds stoned at once.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

If they must then cut "grid" lines that will help deter/slow the growth of any future uncontrolled fires in the area.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

Do you use the area for recreation? If not, maybe take your opinion elsewhere. We don’t need it.

I already signed the petition so unfortunately for you I’ve paid the opinion dues and now you’re stuck with me sharing it.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

Do you use the area for recreation? If not, maybe take your opinion elsewhere. We don’t need it.

New here?

Telling Pepsi you don't want his opinion will just make him 100x more likely to continue posting until everyone else in the thread is exhausted and gives up.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

Do you use the area for recreation? If not, maybe take your opinion elsewhere. We don’t need it.

I'm not sure if Pepsi has hiked/used the moose mountain area but based on his criticism of people saying don't do it there, he probably doesn't have any personal connection with the area. If you've been up to the station you'll understand what makes it a gem of a location and why locals who have a fond appreciation for it would want to shield it from any mass logging operation.

There's always a justification for why someone will make a statement but it takes a bigger person than some of the virtue signalers here are willing to be to ask questions and understand another person's POV before coming out and labeling them selfish/animal haters or whatever is being subtly implied by their responses.

Can only speak for what I've posted but I never said clearing elsewhere was desirable either. I said it was terrible all the same, but the lesser of two poisons if forced to choose. I think there's a leap/assumption to go from interpreting "please don't do that here, if you must do it there" to "yes, do it there! Don't care as long as i don't see it! #### the wildlife!"

Alberta is run by the UCP, the development monster isn't slowing down any time soon and these companies have rights to this land unfortunately. This is the somber reality we live in. Yes.. in an idealistic world we'd snap our fingers and have no more logging in these areas. Unfortunately it's not the world we live in, so hard decisions have to be made.

Sometimes the intent to make examples of people here without first understanding them or any other POV on the situation is laughably and sadly dense.

I used to get pretty riled by it but then I realized the individuals who do this as a hobby in the OT come at people from a very narrow perspective without the intent of expanding theirs or empathizing with any one elses perspective in most instances.

So in the end, it's nonsensical to take an offense to it or become personally engaged in defending a position that they're not willing to understand.

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

New here?

Telling Pepsi you don't want his opinion will just make him 100x more likely to continue posting until everyone else in the thread is exhausted and gives up.

I’ve noticed the guy likes a good argument. Enjoys playing devils advocate, and knows more about most things than everyone. And usually tosses in an insult or some degrading comment. But he signed the petition, yet somehow defends the logging company because people that don’t want the trees removed are NIMBY. I don’t know how anyone could be on the loggers side. It’s clearly easy pickins for them, and they don’t give a #### about hiker,bikers or trail users. Or the people of bragg creek.