Does nationality matter in terms of prospect’s likelihood to stay in Calgary?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Only if they have a tight knit family circle in the US.

Otherwise nationality hasn't mattered and doesn't matter.

Being competitive will alleviate all concerns, so let's get to work on that.

[Finger Cookin]

Me only draft alberta boys alberta boys are stronk

[Lanny_McDonald]

Yes, it should come into play. It should be part of the team’s risk management process and should be understood before making an investment in player. Flight risk is something every employer evaluates when they review talent and make a hiring decision. The same extends to sports and the Flames. Draft only players that are willing to commit long term, otherwise you become a feeder to the teams where these players want to end up.

This does not mean do not draft Americans or Russians or whatever nationality. It means do your due diligence and understand what you are possibly getting into with a player. As I said in another thread, players from the USNDTP have developed a particular mindset that is anti-Canada. Stay away from those players. There are plenty of Americans who play their junior in Canada that may not share the same mindset so may be worth investing in. Do the due diligence. The Flames should learn from their moments with Drury, Erixon, and Fox. Especially when it comes to high draft picks that you need to turn into quality players for YOUR team, not someone elses.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Yes, it should come into play. It should be part of the team’s risk management process and should be understood before making an investment in player. Flight risk is something every employer evaluates when they review talent and make a hiring decision. The same extends to sports and the Flames. Draft only players that are willing to commit long term, otherwise you become a feeder to the teams where these players want to end up.

This does not mean do not draft Americans or Russians or whatever nationality. It means do your due diligence and understand what you are possibly getting into with a player. As I said in another thread, players from the USNDTP have developed a particular mindset that is anti-Canada. Stay away from those players. There are plenty of Americans who play their junior in Canada that may not share the same mindset so may be worth investing in. Do the due diligence. The Flames should learn from their moments with Drury, Erixon, and Fox. Especially when it comes to high draft picks that you need to turn into quality players for YOUR team, not someone elses.

No they don’t.

This is a ridiculous assertion. If this was the case, people moving from one job to the other would be much lower than it is. We’re not even half way through this year and in my industry, there’s been constant movement.

Yet again, and as is your way, you’re overstating things without really knowing.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TOfan

No they don’t.

This is a ridiculous assertion. If this was the case, people moving from one job to the other would be much lower than it is. We’re not even half way through this year and in my industry, there’s been constant movement.

Yet again, and as is your way, you’re overstating things without really knowing.

You’re right. I probably should have been more clear. Large organizations that have revenues in the hundred million plus range employ these management practices. If your industry is one where paper hats are part of the standard uniform, they don’t give a #### about their HR investments because there is an endless supply of bodies to work in the minimum wage industry. But when you start paying six and seven figures for Human Resources risk management is reviewed for those positions. It is one of the functions of HR and talent acquisition and retention. If the Flames are not making determinations about flight risk of players they are drafting and signing, they are fools. You don’t make the significant investments in developing players that aren’t going to play for you.

[flambers]

I worked with a large organization, and we definitely spoke about flight risk after the interviews were done.

It is discussed and it is a factor,

[Roof-Daddy]

Kind of hard to believe any one here would doubt this is an issue given that in the last 6 years we watched Fox, Gaudreau and Tkachuk all leave primarily because of location.

Luckily the latter two didn't let it keep them from coming here at all at least.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I wonder if there is anything deliberate about Conroy bringing in more Russia’s
If you are worried about being attractive to American players being a preferred destination for somewhere else may be prudent

[Sylvanfan]

It annoys me to the high hilt that people cry about drafting Tkachuck, Gaudreau, and Fox like it was a complete waste. In all three cases the team got more out of the pick than what the original investment was worth. Don't pass on talent because you're scare you'll have to trade it 8 years out and that you suck at trading.

Fox is the only one who totally bitched out and if the Flames don't draft him pretty high odds that pick yields nothing

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

You’re right. I probably should have been more clear. Large organizations that have revenues in the hundred million plus range employ these management practices. If your industry is one where paper hats are part of the standard uniform, they don’t give a #### about their HR investments because there is an endless supply of bodies to work in the minimum wage industry. But when you start paying six and seven figures for Human Resources risk management is reviewed for those positions. It is one of the functions of HR and talent acquisition and retention. If the Flames are not making determinations about flight risk of players they are drafting and signing, they are fools. You don’t make the significant investments in developing players that aren’t going to play for you.

Unsurprisingly you took the low road and tried to take a shot. Predictable and lame.

What player isn’t a flight risk?

[Strange Brew]

Control what you can control. Build an organization with a winning culture and it will be attractive for all players. Look at other leagues.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

It annoys me to the high hilt that people cry about drafting Tkachuck, Gaudreau, and Fox like it was a complete waste. In all three cases the team got more out of the pick than what the original investment was worth. Don't pass on talent because you're scare you'll have to trade it 8 years out and that you suck at trading.

Fox is the only one who totally bitched out and if the Flames don't draft him pretty high odds that pick yields nothing

I hope this wasn't directed at me because first of all I'm not "crying" and secondly I never said it was a complete waste.

It was however a futile attempt at building a long term competitive team because coming off their best regular season since 1989 two of our core players bolted for America.

So like I said, it's a concern and something that needs to be remedied somehow. A new arena with better player facilities will probably help. Hopefully Conroy has a plan in place, as a transplanted American, to help keep guys like that here long term so we don't have to hit the reset button prematurely.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I hope this wasn't directed at me because first of all I'm not "crying" and secondly I never said it was a complete waste.

If the Flames draft an American and your first post/reaction is not another NCAA player. Than yes, this will be directed at you.

When the Flames drafted Coronato there were a few who's first reaction was exactly that. Can't remember if that was you and I don't care 18 months later if it was. But if that's the reaction this year, I won't go easy on those posters. The Flames need to draft better talent and the US is starting to emerge as the number one source of high level talent. You don't need to worry about a high end player leaving 8 years later if you don't draft any high end players because of birth certificate is a surefire way to be terrible for a long time.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Draft large, defensively responsible Western Canadian boys. Problem solved.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Kind of hard to believe any one here would doubt this is an issue given that in the last 6 years we watched Fox, Gaudreau and Tkachuk all leave primarily because of location.

Luckily the latter two didn't let it keep them from coming here at all at least.

Fox also ditched CAR.

31 teams wouldn't have been able to keep him. So its a poor example that doesn't support the theory being made.

I doubt another situation like Gaudreau/Tkachuk happens here any time soon, even if the Flames don't alter their approach for perceived flight risk.

[Coach]

Another level of player pestering that I think is/was a factor is the insane playoff pressure and fallout from losses. Whose fault it was. The guys aren't playoff performers. Can't step it up. Blah blah blah.

There are a lot of other good players and at least a half dozen other teams that are strong contenders for winning. Only one can. Sometimes crap doesn't go your way. If OVIE had been Flame he would have been chased out of town so long before he ever won. Fans complain about lack of patience with ownership and management, but at the soonest taste of potential success, it becomes so binary. You either walk away with the Cup, or it deserves to be blown up.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Coach

Another level of player pestering that I think is/was a factor is the insane playoff pressure and fallout from losses. Whose fault it was. The guys aren't playoff performers. Can't step it up. Blah blah blah.

There are a lot of other good players and at least a half dozen other teams that are strong contenders for winning. Only one can. Sometimes crap doesn't go your way. If OVIE had been Flame he would have been chased out of town so long before he ever won. Fans complain about lack of patience with ownership and management, but at the soonest taste of potential success, it becomes so binary. You either walk away with the Cup, or it deserves to be blown up.

If that was true how did Iggy manage to stay so long? Cmon.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Draft large, defensively responsible Western Canadian boys. Problem solved.

Shut up Darryl. You have livestock to tend.

[activeStick]

Lots of good comments in the thread, too bad many posters can't help but be confrontational in their remarks.

I've mentioned my view a few times when this topic comes up and I agree with Warrener and it needs to factor into things for the Flames. But Pinder makes good points as well from the other side.

In summary:

- Calgary is rebuilding right now and will have some consecutive down years coming up here. IMO, that's the sort of environment that will make blooming NHL superstars think about finding greener pastures (where losing isn't frequent) when they have the ability to as a free agent (after their contract that gives them the ability to choose elsewhere or immediately after US college hockey).

- "Blooming NHL superstars" in the above matters though. A situation where you see Coronato leaving if he continues down his current NHL graduation path isn't likely and shouldn't warrant any concerns despite him being a 13th overall pick. Whereas a player like Adam Fox was a concern despite his low draft number due to his steep progression in his final amateur seasons and showing at the U18s. The options available to the player matters.

- For me, it would be less about nationality and more about whether or not they play in US College hockey. The rules are what they are, so I'd manage that risk to the Flames accordingly.

- Fast forward to whenever the Flames are an annual contender, moving through the first rounds of the playoff regularly. That's when I think the risk is lessened, but not completely eliminated. A successful team will wash away many of the desires to leave, but at the end of the day, Calgary is Calgary. It's cold for many months of the year, it's a medium-sized city that isn't for everybody and simply not a city that comes up in conversations of North Americans. Some players have zero interest living in that kind of city if they have a choice to make the same income elsewhere.

- As for flight risk and whether it's taken into consideration when hiring someone into the organization... I interview experienced people who we will offer 6 figures to (not 7) and flight risk comes up some times, but depends on the situation. Is the market hot? How competitive is your offer? Does the success of the organization specifically related to this hiring depend on the candidate staying in this role for 3-5 years minimum? And relevant to the Flames, how is your brand seen in your industry? The firm I work for is considered an upper-tier brand amongst our peers in our industry, so we're usually not concerned about this, but for the Flames, as I noted above, it isn't great right now thanks to high profile Americans leaving recently (3 in the last 10). Conroy has even spoken to this about how guys like Weegar and Kadri making the positive comments they made at the end of this year about the city and the organization is a huge help to the Flames.

For this draft, if the Flames have a choice between 2 players who are similar in their internal ranking, they'll take the one who isn't playing in US college, I think. If they're both playing US college and the 3rd player is too steep of a drop in their opinion? I'm guessing the Flames bite the bullet and hope the kid stays since drafting the BPA is still going to drive things for them.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

If that was true how did Iggy manage to stay so long? Cmon.

The surprise Cup run carried a long way, and people we're grateful for that run after a big drought of success and almost losing the team, but people were pretty over the Iggy country club by the early 2010's.

If Gaudreau/Tkachuk and co. had even made a conference finals appearance it would have given them more slack IMO. I also think we had 3-5 years of doing just that if they had stayed. We don't know what we have with players until theyre gone a lot of the time. I think being an underserved media market plays into that a bit too. The light shone on other stars isn't shed on players in Calgary despite being top players at their positions. That includes Iggy, despite all the love he does receive, he would be a national hero in even another Canadian market. In an American market he would have been a dream. A black player considered the best in the world for a time? He should have been marketed to high heaven. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are a couple of the most skilled players of the past decade and we treated them like side-pieces that weren't getting it done despite delivering seasons of genuine shots at championships including 2 division titles and a conference title with teams featuring some of the best players at their positions. And we couldn't just be happy with some exciting hockey with chances at success and when the losses came just say thanks for the fun season, lets get em next year, instead of WHAT ABOUT THESE MISTAKES?! HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN YOURSELF?! Each and every time.

And maybe don't have a GM using every little bit of leverage against young stars. It will just breed the same coming back at you and you can't be surprised when it happens.