2016 NHL Draft

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

A lot of people would have been okay if the Flames had taken Kylington at 15. A lot of people predicted Kylington to go earlier. That isn't a good example.

Again, it's not Pronman's prediction of where the players will go in the draft, it's his personal evaluations of who he thinks the best players will be. Just like Button.

There's nothing odd about this and I don't get the outrage. His ranking really isn't even that different than a lot of others out there.

It isn't outrage, it's just that knowing his bias, I take his rankings with a big grain of salt.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It isn't outrage, it's just that knowing his bias, I take his rankings with a big grain of salt.

Exactly. Button isn't getting questioned about Brown in his top 5 because Button has favored bigger players over small, or some other notable bias. Pronman has, and he does it every year. So when you see Brown high on Button's list, it makes you wonder why. When you see Keller high on Pronman's list, you partially assume it is due to Keller being one of those small and highly skilled players that Pronman loves.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

........ doesn't Craig Button get praised on here for the exact same thing?

Pronman isn't suggesting that's how the draft will play out, it's just his personal evaluations of players.

I don't see Button giving preference to anyone except those he thinks will have a NHL career. Button relies on what he knows teams are looking for and drafting. Pronman? No idea. His evaluations are so unrealistic it isn't even funny, mostly because he ignores the reality of the NHL being a big man's game. Pronman's evaluations don't hold water.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Well as far as I know Button is the only resource to even have somebody like Brown in his top 10, yet people want to scrutinize Pronman for having Keller (who is generally in the mix from 6-10) a couple spots earlier? I mean, just like Button, he's personally scouted Keller, and there's really not a lot to dislike except for his size. And when size is becoming less and less of a factor in the NHL, it seems like pretty reasonable logic to me, even If you disagree.

It isn't Pronman's inclusion of Keller, it is Pronman's inclusion of another 20-30 small guys that have little to no chance of being NHL players. Like it or not, size matters. Given the choice between a small highly skilled player or a bigger slightly less skilled player, the bigger guys is getting picked. Even a clown like Button recognizes that. Maybe Pronman should finally clue in?

[GranteedEV]

Yea Pronman is the kind of crazy guy who would keep stocking up midgets like Tyler Johnson, Nikita Kucherov, Vladislav Namestnikov, Anton Stralman, Jonathan Drouin, Nikita Gusev, Brayden Point, Nikita Nesterov, Anthony DeAngelo, knowing full well they're just too short to be useful NHLers. Rawr size.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by New Era

I don't see Button giving preference to anyone except those he thinks will have a NHL career. Button relies on what he knows teams are looking for and drafting. Pronman? No idea. His evaluations are so unrealistic it isn't even funny, mostly because he ignores the reality of the NHL being a big man's game. Pronman's evaluations don't hold water.



It isn't Pronman's inclusion of Keller, it is Pronman's inclusion of another 20-30 small guys that have little to no chance of being NHL players. Like it or not, size matters. Given the choice between a small highly skilled player or a bigger slightly less skilled player, the bigger guys is getting picked. Even a clown like Button recognizes that. Maybe Pronman should finally clue in?

Hang on, first issue here is, why should Pronman write like he cares what NHL teams want? He isn't running a mock draft, he is writing a list of the prospects he likes. Where does he say that in ranking Keller 4th, he thinks Keller will go top 5/top 10?

He clearly just is quite high on Keller, as some on here have been about McLeod(including McKeen's externally). Others are high on Chychrun, others Juolevi. Some aren't huge fans of Dubois or Tkachuk, others don't like Nylander where as some do. But all I get from it is, what does it matter and why get worked up about it?

He isn't the one conducting the draft, he isn't going to be making the pick for the Flames or any other team. Would you rather he lied and did a list that was more in keeping with what NHL teams valued? I happen to like guys that go off the board and make interesting choices. Generates new discussion and debate and lets face it, we desperately need it with the draft still 6 odd weeks away.

I reckon if you asked Pronman to run a mock draft, his list would look different. But I just don't think one writers thoughts need to be met with so much hostility.

[getbak]

Button does two different types of lists. He does his "Craig's List" which is his ranking of the players with no consideration given to any team's specific needs. He also does the mock drafts where he takes into account which team is drafting in each position.

His last list (that I can find) was released at the end of March, before the U-18s, and he has Brown ranked 27th (http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-canad...class-1.457738). I believe he'll release a final list sometime after the end of the Memorial Cup. Brown will likely be higher on that list than his March list, but who knows how much higher?

After the lottery, he did a mock draft and had Vancouver taking Brown at 5th overall. Last week, he released a new mock and this time he has Montreal taking him 9th: http://www.tsn.ca/leafs-take-matthew...draft-1.489187.

The difference is that he originally had the Oilers taking Dubois and now he has them taking Juolevi. So, he seems to think that Vancouver wants a big, heavy forward and Tkachuk isn't it.

[Samonadreau]

Same link twice^.

Edit: good now!

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Same link twice^.

Whoops. Fixed.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Same link twice^.

Lots of Matthews drooling in the video. Are we sick of it yet?

http://www.tsn.ca/leafs-take-matthew...draft-1.489187

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Lots of Matthews drooling in the video. Are we sick of it yet?

http://www.tsn.ca/leafs-take-matthew...draft-1.489187

after The Year of McDavid, I have become dead inside and therefore immune to the Savior in the the East...

better for TSN to hype someone we'll only see 2x per year than another year of McDavid hype...

hopefully he'll get then to finish above 2nd last... incidentally, the same finish before the Oiler drafted McDavid...

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Yea Pronman is the kind of crazy guy who would keep stocking up midgets like Tyler Johnson, Nikita Kucherov, Vladislav Namestnikov, Anton Stralman, Jonathan Drouin, Nikita Gusev, Brayden Point, Nikita Nesterov, Anthony DeAngelo, knowing full well they're just too short to be useful NHLers. Rawr size.

Tampa does have some small players but as a team they are still bigger than the Flames by an average of 5.5 lbs. and a little taller as well. Taking smaller players late in the draft can be a good move but I wouldn't build my team around the concept of taking them in the first round. Their three small 1st rounders are having some trouble adapting to the NHL.

http://mirtle.blogspot.ca/2015/10/20...eight-and.html

[iloveicedhockey]

Kucherov is a hell of a player, whoever made that call deserved a raise.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Yea Pronman is the kind of crazy guy who would keep stocking up midgets like Tyler Johnson, Nikita Kucherov, Vladislav Namestnikov, Anton Stralman, Jonathan Drouin, Nikita Gusev, Brayden Point, Nikita Nesterov, Anthony DeAngelo, knowing full well they're just too short to be useful NHLers. Rawr size.

Look at the whole lineup. They have some serious beef in the lineup. It is really too bad that Washington got knocked off as I would have liked to have seen how Tampa stacks up against a big quick team. I wonder how they will do against the winner of the west, which is going to be a big quick team?

Originally Posted by JJ1532

Hang on, first issue here is, why should Pronman write like he cares what NHL teams want? He isn't running a mock draft, he is writing a list of the prospects he likes. Where does he say that in ranking Keller 4th, he thinks Keller will go top 5/top 10?

Because he's trying to write a credible report on the draft, and he will only gain credibility if the ultimate draft list is similar to his, or if the players he calls turn out to be the best talents from said draft. So far he looks like an asshat for most of his predictions. Seriously, if you're writing a prospectus on stocks, and you picks losers year after year, how much credibility would you have in the industry?

He clearly just is quite high on Keller, as some on here have been about McLeod(including McKeen's externally). Others are high on Chychrun, others Juolevi. Some aren't huge fans of Dubois or Tkachuk, others don't like Nylander where as some do. But all I get from it is, what does it matter and why get worked up about it?

Whose worked up about it? I asked a question why his opinion matters any more. Seems you're more worked up about someone questioning his opinion.

He isn't the one conducting the draft, he isn't going to be making the pick for the Flames or any other team. Would you rather he lied and did a list that was more in keeping with what NHL teams valued? I happen to like guys that go off the board and make interesting choices. Generates new discussion and debate and lets face it, we desperately need it with the draft still 6 odd weeks away.

I would hope that if he ranks players for the up coming draft that is who he honestly believes should be ranked and drafted at those slots. If he's doing it to be different or for click bait, then he's a bigger loser than his selections make him appear.

I reckon if you asked Pronman to run a mock draft, his list would look different. But I just don't think one writers thoughts need to be met with so much hostility.

Then he has no credibility and shouldn't be writing this stuff. If your prospectus is different from how you think the talent should be drafted then you are not a very credible source of information.

[iloveicedhockey]

Are you saying someone can't have a list of what he likes compared to what he thinks will happen without losing credibility?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by New Era

Look at the whole lineup. They have some serious beef in the lineup. It is really too bad that Washington got knocked off as I would have liked to have seen how Tampa stacks up against a big quick team. I wonder how they will do against the winner of the west, which is going to be a big quick team?

Now you`re just changing the topic. What`s that got to do with a prospect list?

Fact is that a team can draft skill foremost and surround that skill with size in other ways. Pronman thinks that a handful of the best prospects in this draft happen to be smaller players. Not like there aren't going to be dozens of bigger busts in this draft. He made his list, which is no less likely to be "right" than any other guy's list.

[bigrangy]

I'm on the Keller train now. If picking him at 6 is a reach, trade down to 8, grab him, let him stew for 2 years in the NCAA, then get ready for a Calder.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I'm on the Keller train now. If picking him at 6 is a reach, trade down to 8, grab him, let him stew for 2 years in the NCAA, then get ready for a Calder.

I do prefer Keller over Nylander, since I think there's more consistent skill there.

But size is a factor, so Dubois and Tkachuk are still way ahead imo. There's a decent chance that the BPA at 6th will be a defenseman.

[VladtheImpaler]

Going all the way through the THN rankings and write-ups, there is nothing much there after about 25-30. Or rather after 20, there is a group of about 10-12 that are somewhat interesting (like Rubtsov, Debrincat, Koutcher (sp?), and then a bunch of midgets, projects, one-dimensional defensemen and goalies. Based on that, I am all for using the 6th, the 3 2nds, and the 3rd to get as many shots in the top 20 as possible and/or add live bodies. Normally, I am all for using the picks, but it just looks like this draft drops off the cliff toward the end of the first round. And the top, I see very little difference in value in that group, once you get past 3. I would love to drop back and draft 10 and 15 or so, grab Jost and one of the 5 defensemen...

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Now you`re just changing the topic. What`s that got to do with a prospect list?

Fact is that a team can draft skill foremost and surround that skill with size in other ways. Pronman thinks that a handful of the best prospects in this draft happen to be smaller players. Not like there aren't going to be dozens of bigger busts in this draft. He made his list, which is no less likely to be "right" than any other guy's list.

Actually, I think that's exactly how you shouldn't do it. Having a small team, with a few big, unskilled guys in the bottom 6 just for size, is just about the worst way possible to build a team.

You need skill AND size throughout the lineup. You need guys for every role. And you need a goalie of course.

But the idea of 'adding size in other ways' is exactly why some people think it's a waste.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Going all the way through the THN rankings and write-ups, there is nothing much there after about 25-30. Or rather after 20, there is a group of about 10-12 that are somewhat interesting (like Rubtsov, Debrincat, Koutcher (sp?), and then a bunch of midgets, projects, one-dimensional defensemen and goalies. Based on that, I am all for using the 6th, the 3 2nds, and the 3rd to get as many shots in the top 20 as possible and/or add live bodies. Normally, I am all for using the picks, but it just looks like this draft drops off the cliff toward the end of the first round. And the top, I see very little difference in value in that group, once you get past 3. I would love to drop back and draft 10 and 15 or so, grab Jost and one of the 5 defensemen...

That sounds like it would be quite difficult/expensive to move up though.