2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[dash_pinched]

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[activeStick]

Originally Posted by New Era

We have guys that can step in and play at the same level as these two, or at an even higher level. Just give them a chance.

I can agree with the view that Hudler and Russell should be moved to allow prospects to develop and ensure the Flames have cap room for Monahan and Gaudreau, but to suggest that the prospects can step in and play at the same level as Hudler is simply not true.

Nobody in the A can fill Hudler's shoes if he leaves tomorrow.

Letting him go is the right thing to do I think, but nobody will fill his shoes in production. In fact, it'll likely be someone already in the lineup that gets bumped to the top line or the Flames try to fill the hole via trade.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Exactly, plus maybe Treliving can spark some of his magic again and get a player like we did with Dougie.

Hoffman would be an interesting offseason target. RFA, but the Senators are notoriously cheap.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Nobody in the A can fill Hudler's shoes if he leaves tomorrow.

At the level he's playing, yes he can be replaced by a number of players. Hudler has been invisible for the majority of the season and has not played with much passion.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I can agree with the view that Hudler and Russell should be moved to allow prospects to develop and ensure the Flames have cap room for Monahan and Gaudreau, but to suggest that the prospects can step in and play at the same level as Hudler is simply not true.

Nobody in the A can fill Hudler's shoes if he leaves tomorrow.

Letting him go is the right thing to do I think, but nobody will fill his shoes in production. In fact, it'll likely be someone already in the lineup that gets bumped to the top line or the Flames try to fill the hole via trade.

Totally agree with your entire post. Fully on board with moving Hudler, this team has no other option, as there is no long term fit (unfortunately). But the notion that Hudler will simply replaced by some already in the org. is laughable. While I don't disagree he hasn't been the same Hudler as we saw last year, there is literally no one on this team or in Stockton that is even in the same league as Hudler, it's not even close.

It's that kind of delusion that is hard to take sometimes. The over expectation of some of our prospects, and the devaluing of the vets whether it's Hudler or Bolig is insane. And it's also never consistent, it's thrown around to suit arguments. For example, Hudler will easily be replaced by someone currently on our roster, but he'll also net us a first round pick when we trade him......... it just doesn't add up. Either we are going to miss him and he's a valuable asset in a trade, or we won't miss him and he won't net us much. It can't be both.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by New Era

At the level he's playing, yes he can be replaced by a number of players. Hudler has been invisible for the majority of the season and has not played with much passion.

Hudler is third on the team in scoring, on a pace for 55 points per 82 GP, which is actually a bit above his career average (0.67 PPG vs. 0.62). If he can do that while being invisible, then I don't much care if anybody can see him.

As for passion: Anybody can play with passion. The ECHL is full of guys who play with passion. There are plenty of players in beer leagues who play with passion. Talent will get you through times of no passion better than passion will get you through times of no talent. Hudler's talent is still there, and hard to replace. Nobody in Stockton is going to step in and score at a 55-point pace.

Coaches don't give a crap about passion, as long as they get results. Hudler is never going to have another season like '14-15, and if you expect that, you're out to lunch; but he is getting perfectly respectable results for Jiri Hudler.

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah as uninspired as Hudler has been, 50 point scorers are tough to find. Right now I don't think the Flames have a player not on their NHL roster who will score 50 points in a season. It will be Austin Matthews to replace his scoring or bust.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Totally agree with your entire post. Fully on board with moving Hudler, this team has no other option, as there is no long term fit (unfortunately). But the notion that Hudler will simply replaced by some already in the org. is laughable. While I don't disagree he hasn't been the same Hudler as we saw last year, there is literally no one on this team or in Stockton that is even in the same league as Hudler, it's not even close.

Hudler is very good, but life goes on. We managed to get over losing Iginla, Cammalleri, Tanguay, and Bouwmeester. Did it take time, and some lucky plinko chips? Sure. But we're over it.

Guys will have to step up and the replacement maybe won't be a 1:1 seemless transition. But there's nothing stopping, maybe Granlund from developing into part of what Hudler is right now. Some other players in the organization who could offset the loss include Jankowski, Poirier, Agostino, Mangiapane, and Klimchuk. We've got Sam Bennett becoming better and better by the moment. Hunter Smith might be a one-trick-pony, but that one trick is deflections, which is a big part of what Hudler brings.

You won't have one player replacing everything he brings, but if different players can add the elements he brings in different ways, the organiation gets better.

Hudler is a valuable piece, and that's why we have to get value back for him at the deadline. This team is still years away and can't be half-assing its rebuild. If we really do like Hudler there's always a chance he returns in the offseason as Vermette and Michalek did in Arizona. And yet we'll have gotten a look at "life without Jiri" at the same time which is an important way of assessing his value from a cap hit perspective.

[cannon7]

I think Hudler has been playing hurt since those hits he received from Regehr in the playoff clinching game last season. This is largely why he struggled in the playoffs and ever since. I think he's only now starting to come around and so I hope Treliving hangs onto him until the trade deadline as I think his play will improve. I also think he's the biggest reason (after Gio) for the Flames' struggles this season, as he was pretty much the glue on the top line.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hudler is very good, but life goes on. We managed to get over losing Iginla, Cammalleri, Tanguay, and Bouwmeester. Did it take time, and some lucky plinko chips? Sure. But we're over it.

According to Mac-T it takes 25+ years to get over those kinds of players so maybe it will take some more time.

[topfiverecords]

There's nothing wrong with giving Hudler and Russell contracts. As long as they're good deals, which we know The Wizard can pull off, it could actually increase their trade value over being UFA.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I think Hudler has been playing hurt since those hits he received from Regehr in the playoff clinching game last season. This is largely why he struggled in the playoffs and ever since. I think he's only now starting to come around and so I hope Treliving hangs onto him until the trade deadline as I think his play will improve. I also think he's the biggest reason (after Gio) for the Flames' struggles this season, as he was pretty much the glue on the top line.

I was agreeing with you until your last comment. It is completely apparent that Gaudreau stirs the drink on that line.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

There's nothing wrong with giving Hudler and Russell contracts. As long as they're good deals, which we know The Wizard can pull off, it could actually increase their trade value over being UFA.

You would like to re-sign them and then look to trade them?

[cowtown75]

I have a feeling that Hudler might need to be traded. I have a hard time believing that he will take another 4 million dollar contract or less considering his 70 point season last year. Even if he only gets 50 plus points this year, 4 million is a bargain hometown discount type of contract. If you can sign him for 4 mill or less, I think you do it in a heartbeat as he brings other intangibles like leadership and experience. But I just can't see Hudler accepting a contract like that. That being said, it would be better for the team to maximize on his worth while his stock is still "decent" rather then letting an asset go for nothing like Cammy because the money might not be there.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Hudler is third on the team in scoring, on a pace for 55 points per 82 GP, which is actually a bit above his career average (0.67 PPG vs. 0.62). If he can do that while being invisible, then I don't much care if anybody can see him.

As for passion: Anybody can play with passion. The ECHL is full of guys who play with passion. There are plenty of players in beer leagues who play with passion. Talent will get you through times of no passion better than passion will get you through times of no talent. Hudler's talent is still there, and hard to replace. Nobody in Stockton is going to step in and score at a 55-point pace.

Coaches don't give a crap about passion, as long as they get results. Hudler is never going to have another season like '14-15, and if you expect that, you're out to lunch; but he is getting perfectly respectable results for Jiri Hudler.

A dead guy could get points playing with Gaudreau and Monahan. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that Hudler is accomplishing anything at the moment. There is a lot left to be desired with Hudler's play at the moment. I like Jiri, and the leadership he has brought to the team, but I think he looks disinterested. Frankly, we have way too many veterans who are looking that way and that is the biggest problem with this team. The Flames were successful last season because of the enthusiasm the young guys brought to the team. They need that back and if certain vets aren't willing to play that way, it's time to move them. Sponging points off the two best talents on the team don't mean a hill of beans in the big picture. We aren't the Edmonton Oilers where points are all that matters. It's what you do on the ice when you aren't producing that counts the most, and I'm not seeing a helluva lot from Hudler, unlike what he has done in the past couple of years for the club.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by New Era

A dead guy could get points playing with Gaudreau and Monahan.

Mason Raymond, less talented than even a dead guy.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Mason Raymond, less talented than even a dead guy.

Exactly. He actually looked like a NHL player when he was inserted into the lineup on the top line with those two. It is amazing how good a guy can be when he is surrounded with top end talent.

[Dr. Doom]

Sadly Treliving really should have dealt Hudler after last season, everyone and the kitchen sink knew that he was playing well beyond his means. With one bargain year left on his contract, and at his age, really that was a deal on a silver platter and we got greedy. Now I'd say you let him walk for peanuts...

Russell on the other hand is a young blocking machine. Maybe it's for the best he's having an off year, sign him multi for cheap and at the very least if you want to trade him later a # of team would take him for the playoffs.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Sadly Treliving really should have dealt Hudler after last season, everyone and the kitchen sink knew that he was playing well beyond his means. With one bargain year left on his contract, and at his age, really that was a deal on a silver platter and we got greedy. Now I'd say you let him walk for peanuts...

Russell on the other hand is a young blocking machine. Maybe it's for the best he's having an off year, sign him multi for cheap and at the very least if you want to trade him later a # of team would take him for the playoffs.

Agree with the first part of your post. I've been on the trade Hudler train since last season (no, I didn't want to see it happen last year).

Russell though? I'm sorry but I don't see what he brings that can't be instantly replaced by Nakladal, Wotherspoon or whoever. Don't bring up blocked shots because I don't think that's a good stat for a dman when combined with what we visually see from Russell on a game by game basis.

I would sign Russell to a 2 year $2.5m AAV deal to be our #5, but that's about it. And I'd only do it if we could drop Engelland and/or Smid. Unfortunately some poor team is going to pay $4m a year for 3-4 years. I really hope it's not us.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hudler is very good, but life goes on. We managed to get over losing Iginla, Cammalleri, Tanguay, and Bouwmeester. Did it take time, and some lucky plinko chips? Sure. But we're over it.

Guys will have to step up and the replacement maybe won't be a 1:1 seemless transition. But there's nothing stopping, maybe Granlund from developing into part of what Hudler is right now. Some other players in the organization who could offset the loss include Jankowski, Poirier, Agostino, Mangiapane, and Klimchuk. We've got Sam Bennett becoming better and better by the moment. Hunter Smith might be a one-trick-pony, but that one trick is deflections, which is a big part of what Hudler brings.

You won't have one player replacing everything he brings, but if different players can add the elements he brings in different ways, the organiation gets better.

Hudler is a valuable piece, and that's why we have to get value back for him at the deadline. This team is still years away and can't be half-assing its rebuild. If we really do like Hudler there's always a chance he returns in the offseason as Vermette and Michalek did in Arizona. And yet we'll have gotten a look at "life without Jiri" at the same time which is an important way of assessing his value from a cap hit perspective.

But I think Treliving will be damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I personally reckon we'll still have a shot at the play offs come the deadline. So what does Treliving do? Sure, he could trade Hudler, but that has 2 issues. First issue, if he's playing poorly, he'll likely get a low return and you'll question whether it was worth giving up a top 6 winger for very little. But if he's on a hot streak, then you again wonder whether it's worth punching a hole in your top 6 and damaging your hopes of a play off spot just for a possible 1st rounder in the 22-30 range in a weak draft.

I also don't think fans will take too kindly to trading Hudler if we are still in with a shot at the play offs if we only get a prospect/pick back in return. Best case scenario with Hudler is that we're out of contention but he has taken off again. We'll get a good return and it won't directly impact our season. But if either one or both of those things aren't there, I think trading him becomes very problematic.