Ring Road To Nowhere

[CroFlames]

What does the young man realistically expect? We just abandon the ring road project?

It sucks for people that are directly affected by this, but it's not new. There were many homes and business affected when they widened 16th Ave 10 years ago. You deal with it. It's the steady march of progress.

I have sympathy, but again, what do they realistically expect? I would say they were fairly compensated.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

What does the young man realistically expect? We just abandon the ring road project?

It sucks for people that are directly affected by this, but it's not new. There were many homes and business affected when they widened 16th Ave 10 years ago. You deal with it. It's the steady march of progress.

I have sympathy, but again, what do they realistically expect? I would say they were fairly compensated.

Would you feel fairly compensated if you received $68k in exchange for your home? To understand the issue, we'd need to understand the details of the issue, and I don't think we do.

I don't believe you can halt progress on account of a few people. Hell, there's wealthy people kicking up a #### storm because the next portion of the ring road is going to be "too close" to them, let alone actually losing their home.

I just appreciate that he told his story and made his statement. None of us are required to feel like different action should have been taken (though, if we believe his story and I do, there was certainly better ways to handle this on the band side that still would have resulted in this section of road as-is), but I think we are required to listen to people and hear how things impact them, even just to keep in mind that few things under the name of progress come without cost to someone.

[malcolmk14]

I’m glad he did what he did. It takes massive balls to do something like that and stand up and speak out about how you were impacted by the project. I don’t think anyone can expect that the project would be scrapped - it had to happen - but I’m glad to hear from someone who was impacted and I think it’s important that story is shared, too.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

I’m glad he did what he did. It takes massive balls to do something like that and stand up and speak out about how you were impacted by the project. I don’t think anyone can expect that the project would be scrapped - it had to happen - but I’m glad to hear from someone who was impacted and I think it’s important that story is shared, too.

Which, incidentally, should have been exactly the response from the stakeholders. Thank him for sharing his perspective, remind everyone that there is a cost that is often overlooked or downplayed for these projects, they sometimes need to happen regardless, and we as a society will need to be ok with that. Would have been a good acknowledgement of these sometimes unseen non-financial costs while reaffirming that the project ultimately had overwhelming support. Instead you’ve got the mouth of sauron unnecessarily trying to pick a fight with how the media gave time to this. It’s mind boggling how bad they are at issue management.

[Swift]

Yep, I hugely appreciate him coming forward and telling his side. Very respectfully done too. He didn't rage or throw out expletives. He just calmly stated that while some were calling it a happy day, it was a sad day for him personally and for his family. There actually wasn't any call for the project to be halted or abandoned. Again he just wanted to express to the larger community that not everyone was treated fairly (by the band leaders). I felt it was a very powerful moment actually.

[you&me]

Took a small tour on the new section around Sarcee this morning. Biggest surprise was the not one, but two cars heading the wrong way in the shoulder lane as a merged on to the ring road EB from 69th... Like how did they manage to do that and how did they make it so far without realizing it? Both vehicles u-turned in my rearview mirror, so I know they weren't crew vehicles or were driving that way intentionally. Traffic wasn't heavy, but still consistent enough in both directions that the drivers must have realized their mistake before I saw them. Truly bizarre.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

Yep, I hugely appreciate him coming forward and telling his side. Very respectfully done too. He didn't rage or throw out expletives. He just calmly stated that while some were calling it a happy day, it was a sad day for him personally and for his family. There actually wasn't any call for the project to be halted or abandoned. Again he just wanted to express to the larger community that not everyone was treated fairly (by the band leaders). I felt it was a very powerful moment actually.

One thing I found quite powerful was the connection to the land. I think its poorly understood by most Canadians. We (Western Society) look at the land as having a financial value. Whereas portions of First Nations cultures see it as part of them. This person did the best job I have seen at expressing the meaning behind that connection to the land and the trauma associated with being ripped from it.

It’s a foreign concept that I struggle to understand.

[The Fisher Account]

When does the section from 6th street SW to Fish Creek BLVD open up?

[Acey]

The braid-cutting video now has about 3.5 million views on Twitter.

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

When does the section from 6th street SW to Fish Creek BLVD open up?

Target date is October 1, 2021. All signs point to them being done early, likely some time in summer.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Acey

The braid-cutting video now has about 3.5 million views on Twitter.



Target date is October 1, 2021. All signs point to them being done early, likely some time in summer.

Oh wow, I thought it was basically done from driving by. Thnx

[Acey]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Oh wow, I thought it was basically done from driving by. Thnx

It does look very close, and this was my thought as well. But in multiple presentations they have strongly suggested it won't be before summer.

My understanding is that the way the public-private partnership contracts are structured for the ring road legs, there is no big incentive for the contractors to open well ahead of schedule.

[GGG]

I would assume there is a bunch of cast concrete dividers to be installed that they don’t want to pay to hoard to cure in winter.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

What looks overbuilt now, will look under-built 20 years from now. Calgary really needed a ring road for over 40 years.

Hopefully in 20 years we figure out how to carpool and more and more companies have people working from home, we don't need such huge roadways.

The ring road and other such projects are a huge waste of money. We should be focusing on preventing traffic, not making it easier.

[Acey]

It's built more or less the same as the last 3 ring road legs that have opened - Stoney SE, Henday NE, Henday NW. The absolutely massive median doesn't really make it overbuilt and we've beaten to death why the median is so wide.

What classifies as overbuilt is a subjective metric.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Acey

It's built more or less the same as the last 3 ring road legs that have opened - Stoney SE, Henday NE, Henday NW. The absolutely massive median doesn't really make it overbuilt and we've beaten to death why the median is so wide.

What classifies as overbuilt is a subjective metric.

The perplexing part is why the speed limit is artificially low. I mean it’s not actually hard to understand, because they can generate some ticket revenue, but it’s annoying. It’s a wide open road that people can safely go at least 120km/hr and we’re all held to 20km/hr below that for some reason.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Slava

The perplexing part is why the speed limit is artificially low. I mean it’s not actually hard to understand, because they can generate some ticket revenue, but it’s annoying. It’s a wide open road that people can safely go at least 120km/hr and we’re all held to 20km/hr below that for some reason.

Aren't speed limits influenced in part by how many on and off-ramps the road has?

On a road where people are merging on and off every km or so, a significant number of vehicles will be slowing to or accelerating from 50km/h at any given time. If cars are doing 130 in the left lanes (most people drive 10 km/h over the limit), and 50 in the right lanes, that's a pretty dramatic - and potentially dangerous - variance.

And no road design can change the basic physics that the faster you're moving, the longer it takes to stop. There will be stalls, breakdowns, and fender-benders on the ring road, and those unexpected traffic jams like you see on the Deerfoot where all three lanes are at a stand-still. I don't care how skilled some drivers imagine themselves, they're not reacting and stopping as quickly at 130 as they are at 100.

I don't see the cost-benefit advantage of a 120 limit on what for most people will be a few km drive in the city. It's not like the highway where you're on the road for hours and 20 km/h can make a significant difference in arrival time.

[InglewoodFan]

I'm sure this has been posted, but holy boats that 22x - Macleod interchange is a mess. I never get down that way but we came EB on 22X last night with the intention of going NB on Macleod. Kept looking and looking for the signage/exit, and the poor guy in front of me was doing no better. He was slowing down and speeding up, not able to decide on a lane. Finally, well past Macleod we finally saw the little NB Macleod sign - apparently I'm supposed to just flip a U-turn? What a disaster. Anyway, missed the exit and ended up just driving to Deerfoot.

Full respect to the folks who live down that way, the whole thing is a frustrating mess I am sure.

[vtec260]

Drove for past two days and the time saving is nice driving from Signal Hill home to Woodbine work which takes 13 minutes from garage to the parking lot and not speeding. At least ten minute savings each way which means 100 minutes less spent on the road weekly. So far so good. Waiting for first big snow winter driving chaos and see how many people without winter tires struggle on the road by not adjusting to the condition.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Slava

The perplexing part is why the speed limit is artificially low. I mean it’s not actually hard to understand, because they can generate some ticket revenue, but it’s annoying. It’s a wide open road that people can safely go at least 120km/hr and we’re all held to 20km/hr below that for some reason.

The road is classified as an "urban freeway divided" which has a maximum design speed of 110. And then:

Data collected from traffic monitoring devices for passenger vehicles on two lane undivided highways and divided highways posted at 100 km/h and 110 km/h respectively in Alberta, indicated that the 85th percentile driver generally exceeded the posted speed limit on high speed rural facilities by approximately 10 km/h when weather and traffic conditions were favourable.

Note: The 85th percentile speed is defined as the speed that is exceeded by 15 percent of the sample taken.

Design speed must always be more than or at least equal to posted speed and lane capacity increases with posted speed. It is common design practice in Alberta for the design speed of a facility to be 10 km/h to 30 km/h greater than the posted speed. Other jurisdictions vary posted speed within a facility by vehicle type, although this practice does not occur in Alberta.

The highest design speed in Alberta is currently 130 for rural divided freeways. Another thing to consider that nobody ever talks about in these discussions is noise mitigation for adjacent communities, measures for which were predicated on a posted speed limit of 100. Keep in mind that certain other roads in Alberta were allowed to grandfather their high limits after the new standards were introduced, making Stoney/Henday seem further "overbuilt".

Will a politician with a set of balls realize this and eventually say that on a case by case basis that Stoney/Henday should go up? Maybe. Edmonton police (and their chief) have repeatedly said Henday should be 110. Maybe we'll get there eventually. That design guide document is here, but that's a bit of info as to how we've ended up where we are now.

tl;dr: Stoney/Henday are built properly, and everything else sucks.

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

I'm sure this has been posted, but holy boats that 22x - Macleod interchange is a mess.

It is a disaster. How they have gotten away with not fixing the signage is incredibly frustrating.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Acey

It is a disaster. How they have gotten away with not fixing the signage is incredibly frustrating.

Eastbount on Highway 8 is the same story. I followed the signs to the rightmost lane and there was no exist, had to travel all the way to 37st to turn around.

There are three options, left, center and right, and none of them three clearly state which goes to the southbound ring road (is it Tsuut’ina Trail or Tsuut’ina Parkway?).