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Old 09-14-2022, 10:42 AM   #3821
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Don't most rich folk leave their clubs at the club?
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Old 09-14-2022, 01:06 PM   #3822
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Why? Merc and Austin Martin do it. It's good exposure and marketing for everyone.
Ferrari sells cars to fund racing. If they could do away with road cars they would. They only built this thing because customers asked for it. They don’t need to advertise.
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Old 09-14-2022, 01:08 PM   #3823
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Ferrari sells cars to fund racing. If they could do away with road cars they would. They only built this thing because customers asked for it. They don’t need to advertise.
OK, nevermind. You clearly don't understand how this works.
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Old 09-14-2022, 01:29 PM   #3824
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OK, nevermind. You clearly don't understand how this works.
Ok. Explain it to me then. Historically Ferrari Scuderia looked down on the road cars. Maybe that’s changed.
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Old 09-14-2022, 01:54 PM   #3825
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All the words were right there in your post. "They don't need to advertise..." "Ferrari sells cars to fund racing". Well you sell cars by doing stuff like this. People see the medical car is a Ferrari, ripping around the track and say "I want that!" and then they buy it, and it funds the racing team. They wouldn't sell loads Ferrari merch by the truckload if it didn't help fund racing. Beyond all that, they've done it before, so clearly have interest.

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Old 09-14-2022, 01:59 PM   #3826
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It's going to be the biggest selling Ferrari ever and the money they make selling that should feed development of their bread and butter sports cars much like how Porsche is more prosperous than ever because of their SUV sales.
Didn't the Boxster also save Porche, even though it's considered the most disliked Porche by fanboys? Similar situation?

Funny thing about the medical car comment. I was watching F1 with a buddy a few months ago. The pace car from the outside looked so damn slow, you'd think it was slow on purpose to ensure the drivers behind had time to get ready, set up etc... then it goes to a camera view inside the vehicle and it looked like the dude was racing for his life. I literally burst out laughing and I almost spilled my drink in the process. Racing machines and production race cars are totally different beasts.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:01 PM   #3827
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I feel like the whole "selling cars only to fund racing" chestnut is something that may have been true back in the earlier Enzo days, but let's not kid ourselves, today's Ferrari is a multi-billion dollar corporation. Like everyone else, they are in it to make money for themselves and their shareholders.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:07 PM   #3828
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They also have a theme park...
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:07 PM   #3829
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Didn't the Boxster also save Porche, even though it's considered the most disliked Porche by fanboys? Similar situation?
Porsche.

And I think the Boxster started out being looked down on but has since become pretty well accepted by enthusiasts, whether car people in general or Porsche loyalists... The Boxster Spyder is one of the best pure sports cars the company has ever made and the GTS is also fantastic. The 996 911 was also looked down on at the time and everyone has seemingly come around on it, and that improvement in sentiment bled over even to the old generation Boxsters.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:14 PM   #3830
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The only real hate the Boxster ever got was from 911 snobs who didn't like that the entry-level Porsche was sharing parts and looks with their halo car. Even though the earlier gens were a bit underpowered (because of not wanting to step on 911 toes), they were always great cars to drive. I dont think anyone who considers themselves a Porsche fan can hate a relatively affordable mid-engined convertible. I'd go as far to say that there are probably more "real" enthusiasts driving Boxster and Caymans than there are 911s, which in many ways is bought for the snob appeal as much as the car itself.

If there's any car that fanboys hate, it's the Cayenne/Macan crossovers.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:16 PM   #3831
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Even there, I think most people's attitude is, sure buddy, you buy that Macan turbo to haul groceries in, you're financing their ability to make the GT4RS.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:20 PM   #3832
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I feel like the whole "selling cars only to fund racing" chestnut is something that may have been true back in the earlier Enzo days, but let's not kid ourselves, today's Ferrari is a multi-billion dollar corporation. Like everyone else, they are in it to make money for themselves and their shareholders.
Nowadays Ferrari sells terrible looking Ferrari branded clothing and accessories to fund racing.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:23 PM   #3833
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Even there, I think most people's attitude is, sure buddy, you buy that Macan turbo to haul groceries in, you're financing their ability to make the GT4RS.
I don't know if I really buy that whole "need to make SUVs to pay for the sports cars thing" anymore either. Porsche is not some relatively self-contained manufacturer like BMW or Aston Martin... they are part of a massive VAG conglomerate these days. I think they could easily have Porsche be strictly building sports car brand, and have Audi/VW/Skoda/Seat etc make the crossovers.

While I think the Cayenne definitely helped out their finances in the 90s when they were still mostly on their own, these days they are doing it for the simple reason that Ferrari and Rolls and Lambo are doing it...SUVs/crossovers are frickin' cash cows. It erodes their brand somewhat in the long-term, but clearly they seem to think it's worth it.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:30 PM   #3834
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They also have a theme park...
Beside a race track…


I’m going to concede because I did some Googling and Ferrari had a 348 at Monza in 2013 so it’s been done before, although they obviously weren’t trying to market that car at the time. There have been purpose built Ferrari pace cars for Indy.

https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/magazi...rari-pace-cars

I will hold steadfast to my assertion that they don’t need to advertise their cars. Orders fill up as soon as they announce them. Many of their cars are invite only. The merch, and theme park, are to sell people on racing.

Are the internal politics different since the days of Enzo? Definitely, but they still look at themselves as an elite brand.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:36 PM   #3835
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Nowadays Ferrari sells terrible looking Ferrari branded clothing and accessories to fund racing.
If that's the case, you'd think they'd be able to put out a better racing product.

Personally I see it a bit backward. I see the racing functioning as their form of advertising, all to continue the mystique that allows them to make tons of money selling cars to rich people and merchandized crap to the plebs. Ferarri is one of the most valuable brands on earth, and I think they make almost as much revenue from merchandising as they do on cars these days.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:43 PM   #3836
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https://cdn.ferrari.com/cms/network/...2022-08-02.pdf

I don't claim to know how to read these things, but it looks like 85% of their revenue comes from car sales.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:47 PM   #3837
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https://cdn.ferrari.com/cms/network/...2022-08-02.pdf

I don't claim to know how to read these things, but it looks like 85% of their revenue comes from car sales.
Their profit margins are insane. Billionaires don’t care though.

Ok, back to the Corolla, another car I probably still can’t afford either.

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Old 09-14-2022, 02:47 PM   #3838
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Except the Porsche SUVs were semi-useful and attainable.
The Macan really isn't that useful. It's pretty small inside as far as attainability is concerned I don't think that really factors into the conversation when discussing most Porsches and all Ferrari's.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:55 PM   #3839
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Love em or hate em, SUV's/Crossovers have saved countless manufacturers. Heck I work for one. When the Touareg debuted in 2004, we all laughed and said "Like people will buy that thing instead of an AWD Passat Wagon. Our customers are purists and want cars and wagons like good little Euro Customers!"

Yeah... you couldn't keep 'em in stock, and VW raced to develop an SUV that was actually affordable with the Tiguan, which became our best selling vehicle for over a decade.

Many say the Cayenne saved Porsche, and its success gave them the courage to develop the Panamera and Macan.

It's all about catering to the masses. I am sure many of these engineers shed a tear, when they are asked to worry more about cell phone connectivity, than go-fast / stop-fast goodies. The appetite for performance is becoming so niche now, that it no longer needs to be advertised. Those seeking it out, will find it, and the rest.... they'll buy a Taos, or a Kona or one of the other 100+ boxes on wheels available to get them to the nearest Whole Foods.

Your average car commercial is now backed by some stupid edgy techno'ish song with some millennial with about 50 bass drops showing you pictures of touch screens, apps, how the car lights up the makeshift hockey rink at night.... next to nobody cares about the driving experience. I cannot recall the last time a customer asked us how many speeds a transmission has, or what the engine displacement is, and we sell 1500 cars a year +/-.

The commercial that makes me laugh the hardest is some girl driving her Corolla hatchback with this sinister look on her face, seemingly tossing all 130 HP of it through the gears on a winding road, while her boyfriend sleeps in the passenger seat. The experience is so incredibly underwhelming, he doesn't even wake up. I do that to you in my car, you'll wake up with a giant goose-egg on your head from smacking the side window, choking on your own vomit from the G-forces, and likely some form of PTSD.

I'm as much of a performance purist as the most devoted guys, but 85% of people want that box on wheels, a transportation appliance, basically a Maytag car. When is the last time you saw a car manufacturer advertising horsepower and torque in a commercial? Flaunting their suspension tech? It's sad, the magic is all but gone. And the manufacturers, they are going to cater to the masses, not those of us that consider driving both a need AND a hobby.

I think EV's will eventually usher in a new age of performance insanity when they are truly affordable to the masses, but for now, only the extremely well-off can truly afford that experience.
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Old 09-14-2022, 02:58 PM   #3840
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https://cdn.ferrari.com/cms/network/...2022-08-02.pdf

I don't claim to know how to read these things, but it looks like 85% of their revenue comes from car sales.
Interesting, I've heard before they make $1.5-2B in merchandising revenue, but here it looks more like it would be around $400M if you take their quarterly estimates). I wonder if when they went public, some of that merchandising assets remained in private or FCA hands.

Either way, pretty good stock performance so far. IPO'd around $50 in 2015, now at $200.
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