This doesn't make sense to me. If the Russians were hacking and helping Trump, wasn't it done on Obama's watch?
Well if (for example) there was clear evidence that Trump and Russia conspired then it doesn't matter if it happened on 'Obama's watch', there's have to be some kind of response that would involve Trump not becoming president.
But what's 'Obama's watch' mean in this case anyway? It happened on Congress' and the Senate's watch too. All the intelligence communities' watch. Obama isn't personally responsible for the IT security of private citizens and organizations, and neither is the rest of the government.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
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this really seems like bigger news than is being reported...
If Russia actually interfered with the election??? Holy #### that would be insane, because I'm not sure many people even really believe it.
Yeah...this could be really huge. I think it's a definite possibility that the Slate article about the Trump organization having a secret server to a Russian bank is true. Not sayings it is likely...but definitely possible.
I mean would anyone believe that Trump is too ethical for such a move? I sure don't
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"It was a debacle of monumental proportions." -MacT
The only way it's "most likely" is if the American intelligence community is lying about the whole thing.
Fit yourself for that tinfoil hat!
Oh really, so it's certain that there was interference? Why even investigate then? Surely you do realize that the FBI and CIA don't even agree on this issue.
Claims that Russia hacked voting machines are outlandish and on the same level as pizza-gate.
I predict that absolutely nothing will come of this.
Oh really, so it's certain that there was interference? Why even investigate then? Surely you do realize that the FBI and CIA don't even agree on this issue.
Claims that Russia hacked voting machines are outlandish and on the same level as pizza-gate.
I predict that absolutely nothing will come of this.
Who's claiming this? all I've seen is wiki releasing emails from the DNC and the CIA saying it was russia who gave them to wikileaks.
The way I see it the DNC should have protected their dumb emails in the first place or should have shut their mouths in cyberspace because whatever was leaked wasn't a lie.
Man what a horrible time we're in. If that happens there will be blood. if it doesn't happen, it will still be bad. Just another kind of bad, that might lead to worse than civil war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by direwolf
Has there ever been a more contentious Presidential election in our lifetimes? I don't think so. Dubya's 2nd term win was certainly on the controversial side, but nothing on the scale of what we're currently witnessing.
Between Trump's Putin ties and Russian meddling in the election, the huge conflict of interest involving his businesses, his absurd and frightening cabinet appointments, his childish/immature behavior, and his complete lack of knowledge and qualifications for the job...this thing has turned into the biggest political sh-t storm the U.S. has ever seen.
The problem is people are only looking at this on the surface. They only look at things in the context of the Presidential election. What they are missing is the Republicans have been slowly highjacking democracy and installing the systems which favor their form of corporatist government - nee fascism.
Conservatives have played a long game and it is paying off. They have been extremely smart in developing a body of think tanks which develop the intellectual property to make their perspective seem credible. They have managed to cloud every issue with disinformation to confuse an uneducated electorate. They have played a long game in discrediting the traditional mass media and creating their own. They have attacked the organs of education and wrestled control of schooling, developing an indoctrination system and creating their own facts along the way. They've wrestled control over local and state governments and institute laws that contradict federal law (nullification), or make new law before the feds have a chance to weigh in. They have gerrymandered the states so they are reflective of only one perspective. They have completely discredited the system and continue to attack anything and everything that is not in their corporatist agenda. They have created a system that is only there to benefit the corporations and their uber-rich stockholders. But give them credit, they have done so while spinning some of the most epic bull#### mankind has ever swallowed making half the population believe these things are in their best interests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
This doesn't make sense to me. If the Russians were hacking and helping Trump, wasn't it done on Obama's watch?
Is that relevant? Cyber defense is not like national defense. You don't have an enemy on a geopolitical map where you can create lines of defense to prevent that enemy from crossing. Most intrusions are discovered after the fact. It is not the movies where you have people monitoring and see a guy knocking on the firewall to get in. There is so much noise that you require automated systems to look for patterns and behaviors in traffic that tip off possible intrusion. Many times this stuff isn't noticed until after the fact. Yahoo just announced a hack that affected a billion users, and that happened a couple years ago. Also, not all techniques used to influence is illegal. Search Engine Optimization is extremely useful in disseminating information and doesn't require a penetration. Fake news, more social engineering than anything, is not illegal. Electronic warfare comes in many forms, but the most effective is the spread of disinformation and propaganda. There is no doubt that Russia interfered in this election and promoted information on one candidate and disinformation on another. As with other cyber attacks, we have discovered it through forensic means. What we do with this information is the question. When you see the deregulation power grab the Republicans are planning, something drastic needs to be done.
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Who's claiming this? all I've seen is wiki releasing emails from the DNC and the CIA saying it was russia who gave them to wikileaks.
The way I see it the DNC should have protected their dumb emails in the first place or should have shut their mouths in cyberspace because whatever was leaked wasn't a lie.
Well there's the rub. According to the CIA both the DNC and RNC were hacked and information was stolen from both party's servers. Only information from the DNC was released because it cast Clinton in a bad light. The RNC should be very careful what they wish for here. Once they are in power, they become the target. Dirt on the GOP is likely to come out if they don't comply with Russia's wishes.
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So remember when the Trump cult hated everything about the Bush administration, called Iraq a massive debacle they never supported? Well John Bolton is the nominee for Deputy Sec of State. He is, if you aren't aware, one if the chief architects of the WMD lie to make the Iraq War happen. And now, who is it that is doing everything he can to get Rex Tillerson confirmed? Satan himself of course, along with a horde of the biggest neocons. I hope the cult has done extensive yoga training, the amount of bending over backwards and contortion required the next four year to explain the lies they bought (and why they now support Trump in spite of that fact) is going to hurt if they aren't physically ready for it.
Quote:
At the start of the week, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) seemed bent on opposing the nomination of Rex Tillerson for secretary of state.
By the end of it, Rubio had heard directly from former vice president Richard B. Cheney, according to a person with knowledge of the conversation, as well as other key supporters of the ExxonMobil chief executive.
With that, one more controversial proposal by Trump at risk of running aground had found new hope for smoother waters. In this case, the intervention of a high-powered gaggle of establishment Republican leaders — none of them long-standing allies of Trump — appears to be leading the effort to save Tillerson’s nomination.
Tillerson is opposed by many Republicans and Democrats who are suspicious of his perceived close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has worked with ExxonMobil on energy deals.
Yet he is also backed by a small army of hawkish GOP luminaries and deep-pocketed donors. Robert M. Gates, a former CIA director and former defense secretary, personally recommended Tillerson in a meeting with Trump. Condoleezza Rice, the former secretary of state, made the same recommendation to Vice President-elect Mike Pence.
Several of these Tillerson boosters enjoy direct lines of communication to Rubio and other Tillerson skeptics such as Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.). They are seeking to use those channels to blunt hostility in the Senate, where Tillerson must win confirmation.
What’s not clear is whether these Republicans are working with Trump’s blessing or cooperation — or whether, instead, they are freelancing their own agenda to promote an official they favor for Trump’s administration. Rice and Gates run a consulting firm that counts ExxonMobil as a client.
Some emissaries say they are acting on their own while others say they have been nudged to reach out by those shepherding Tillerson’s nomination. A Trump transition spokesman did not respond to requests for comment.
Oh really, so it's certain that there was interference? Why even investigate then? Surely you do realize that the FBI and CIA don't even agree on this issue.
Claims that Russia hacked voting machines are outlandish and on the same level as pizza-gate.
I predict that absolutely nothing will come of this.
You can be certain there was interference without being certain to the extent. That there was interference isn't new information, the White House talked about this back in July even. 17 intelligence agencies supported the claim.
What the FBI and the CIA disagree on is the motivation, not that the hacking took place.
This has nothing to do with Russia hacking voting machines, no one is claiming that.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
I believe the correct technical term for this is "Pay to Play". Remember when the Trump cult thought doing such a thing was the equivalent of murder? Like you know....45 days ago? Good times...
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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Who's claiming this? all I've seen is wiki releasing emails from the DNC and the CIA saying it was russia who gave them to wikileaks.
The way I see it the DNC should have protected their dumb emails in the first place or should have shut their mouths in cyberspace because whatever was leaked wasn't a lie.
Some of the leaked documents were modified (because there were two versions leaked...ooops)
__________________
"WHAT HAVE WE EVER DONE TO DESERVE THIS??? WHAT IS WRONG WITH US????" -Oiler Fan
"It was a debacle of monumental proportions." -MacT
For Tillerson, his job at ExxonMobile was to forge these relationships on behalf of his company and shareholders. He's also done some things that directly went against US interests and foreign policy. His personal views might be completely different.
And he has to be better than Bolton, who will probably be nominated if Tillerson doesn't get confirmed.
I'd be more concerned about him being a political n00b, when Trump and Tillerson and Mad Dog and Conspiracy Man get together to discuss foreign policy, the civilian experience is zero, and Tillerson's lifetime of experience and perspective is for an entity other than the US, so it's hard to see how the military view of generals won't be dominant.
It seems pretty clear that the administration is going to be pro-Russia so even if it was Romney the SoS would still have to accomplish the goals set out by the WH.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
It's really amazing to watch the GOP completely fail to grasp the gravity, both historically and for national security, of Russia's penetration into America's political system. How can house Republicans not support full investigations for this? Like really... It starts to seem like American's have already lost their country to foreign influence.
Conservatives have played a long game and it is paying off. They have been extremely smart in developing a body of think tanks which develop the intellectual property to make their perspective seem credible. They have managed to cloud every issue with disinformation to confuse an uneducated electorate. They have played a long game in discrediting the traditional mass media and creating their own. They have attacked the organs of education and wrestled control of schooling, developing an indoctrination system and creating their own facts along the way. They've wrestled control over local and state governments and institute laws that contradict federal law (nullification), or make new law before the feds have a chance to weigh in. They have gerrymandered the states so they are reflective of only one perspective. They have completely discredited the system and continue to attack anything and everything that is not in their corporatist agenda. They have created a system that is only there to benefit the corporations and their uber-rich stockholders. But give them credit, they have done so while spinning some of the most epic bull#### mankind has ever swallowed making half the population believe these things are in their best interests.
see North Carolina, yesterday
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Pass the bacon.
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So remember when the Trump cult hated everything about the Bush administration, called Iraq a massive debacle they never supported? Well John Bolton is the nominee for Deputy Sec of State. He is, if you aren't aware, one if the chief architects of the WMD lie to make the Iraq War happen. And now, who is it that is doing everything he can to get Rex Tillerson confirmed? Satan himself of course, along with a horde of the biggest neocons. I hope the cult has done extensive yoga training, the amount of bending over backwards and contortion required the next four year to explain the lies they bought (and why they now support Trump in spite of that fact) is going to hurt if they aren't physically ready for it.
Watch how Trump is just baldly telling crowds that his policy positions pre-elections were just stories that played well (eg lock her up). He is telling the Trumpers that he conned them... to their faces....
__________________
"WHAT HAVE WE EVER DONE TO DESERVE THIS??? WHAT IS WRONG WITH US????" -Oiler Fan
"It was a debacle of monumental proportions." -MacT
