World Cup South Africa, 2010 Thread

[GirlySports]

The first yellow to Heitinga was pretty weak too. Not sure Webb even saw it as his back was turned. He just reacted by the player rolling around.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The first yellow to Heitinga was pretty weak too. Not sure Webb even saw it as his back was turned. He just reacted by the player rolling around.

On the replay Webb's back was to the play, no way he saw the tackle.

[chris_yk]

Good article reminding people in this country that we have our own national team worth cheering for:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Wor.../14678716.html

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

A better comparison would be possession soccer and playing the trap in hockey.
It's a style of play certain team choose to play and like trapping in hockey it can be successful if done right by the right team.

Spain demonstrated just that, as does Barcelona, Arsenal and other club teams.

Sure, other styles such as counter attacking, and a ton of other strategies can be effective too, and that's the beauty of the sport. The chess match that it is and the large number of ways a manager and team can approach their strategy.

Saying possession doesn't mean anything tells me you likely don't watch or play much soccer. It's one of the most fundamental aspects of the sport.

Spain's "useless" possession soccer is the reason there was 15 yellow cards yesterday and Holland ended up with 10 men.

Read the thread, dont tell me what I likely do or dont do. I may not have been clear, but while possession is important, determining which team 'dominated' a game based on reading the possession stat is asinine. It is not the be all and end all of the entire match.

The team with greater possession is not always the winning team.

Spain enjoyed a large share of the possession, but they did that in every game and still manage to generate only a handful of scoring opportunities. Their efficiency with possession was very poor.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

On the replay Webb's back was to the play, no way he say the tackle.

Doesn't mean a linesman didn't see the tackle.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by valo403

Doesn't mean a linesman didn't see the tackle.

It happened in the lower left corner of your tv screen. Both linesmen would have also been far away. Perhaps the 4th official saw it.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Ugh well we lose to the eventual wc winner two tourneys in a row.... Ya for being the Bridesmaid fat friend...

Make that three in a row.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by troutman

Biased? You seem to have a big case of sour grapes.

It's simplistic to look at goals for and against. How about quality of opponent? Possession?

Italy was outplayed by USA, AUS and FRA last time IMO. SPA dominated every game they played, even the game they lost to SUI.

Not even close. SPA 2010 >>> ITA 2006

Most commentators are saying SPA is the deserving champion. This was not clear in 2006. ITA had to beat FRA on penalty kicks.

Italy wrote the book on diving.

More proof? I got out-thanked on you 6-1 on this point!

All nonsense. Italy was not outplayed in any of their games and they didn't dive during the 2006 World Cup.

[ipuckedyourmom]

Spain was the best team and every team knew that going into the games against them, so they all sat back and put 10 men behind the ball. However, Spain still managed to grind out wins in all the games they needed too. Spain is more then deserving of the World Cup, plain and simple.

[moon]

Not surprising that in a tournament marred by bad calls that the final game would be ruined by horrible reffing.

It would have been one thing if Webb had been his normal incompetent self but to be so biased and control the outcome of the game was really disappointing.

Tough way to decide a tournament that even with some bad calls had some really good games/performances.

I am not so sure that Spain were the best team in the tournament and they certainly didn't deserve to win that game but I guess you credit them for playing to the ref and realizing that Webb would pull out a card everytime they took a ridiculous dive.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Dagger

No it doesn't. Argentina had the same possession advantage against the Germans as the Spaniards did against the Dutch and they lost 4-0. England held the possession advantage against the Germans and lost by 3.

Spain killed the Swiss in possession with a 63-37% advantage, and they lost.

It doesn't mean everything, far from it. A tactically astute manager such as Low can murder possession style teams with a sly counter attack.

The Dutch had the winning formula yesterday. Spain wasn't going to be dominated in the possession column, and we already saw the Swiss beat the Spaniards in a similar fashion. I'd argue that if Robben barried either of the breakaways he had(or was rightfully awarded a dangerous FK, with Puyol being sent off) then we would be christening Van Marwijk's brilliance.

Spain is always going to win the possession battle, the Oranje were skilled enough to play a possession game with them, but rightfully tried to play a counter attacking style. Imagine the Dutch playing possession game with the speed of Villa, Navas/Pedro,Iniesta and Ramos charging up the right with the passing range of Alonso and Xavi behind them. The second they make a poor pass they're dead. Matijsen, Heitinga and Van Bronckhorst are all slow. Van Der Wiel would be the only with the pace to keep up but Ramos and Navas/Pedro played on the right flank as opposed to Van Der Wiel's left. I can assure you this game would have looked a lot more like Portugal-North Korea than the close game it was had they played the way you suggested.

Good analysis.

The way I see it, possession has a very small correlation to winning in low scoring types of games (hockey, soccer), but much more in high scoring games like basketball or lacrosse.

When 99% of your possessions result in no goals (soccer), having a 53-47 possession advantage means that you score an average of 0.06 goals more than the other team per 100 possessions. Over a long season, that minor differential might translate into more wins, but in an elimination style tourney, the variance is high enough that it doesn't matter.

On the other hand, a game like football or basketball where the percentage is much higher, holding onto possession via field control in football, or creating turnovers/2nd chances in basketball become absolutely vital.

However, there aren't that many interesting stats to keep in soccer. I doubt they want to see a "passes to the goalie from the attacking zone" stat or "# of dives called/failed" stat.

Another interesting comparison would be the shots on goal stat in hockey. A team like Detroit is designed to shoot from everywhere, and they end up with 40 shots a game. Other teams shoot only from good positions, and end up with 20 goals a game. I do remember seeing a chart trying to correlate SOG/game to wins and it just didn't happen.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Another interesting comparison would be the shots on goal stat in hockey. A team like Detroit is designed to shoot from everywhere, and they end up with 40 shots a game. Other teams shoot only from good positions, and end up with 20 goals a game. I do remember seeing a chart trying to correlate SOG/game to wins and it just didn't happen.

Actually, SOG/game is widely regarded in hockey stats community as having a high correlation with goal scoring (and conversely goals against) and therefore winning as well. Sites like Puck Prospectus (sister site to the famous Baseball one) use it as one of their key stats in determining future team success. There are lots of instances where the shot clock doesn't tell the whole story of the game, but the vast majority of the time it does.

[Locke]

Toshiba reneges on promise of free laptops if Spain win the World Cup.

Buy a Core i5 laptop or a Toshiba TV, and if your country wins the World Cup Final, we'll refund your money. Simple and to the point, don't you think? Toshiba ran this advertising campaign in Germany, England, Portugal, Italy and Spain in the run-up to the global football tournament, but now that one of those nations has actually gone and scooped the silverware, refunds seem remarkably hard to come by.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/14/t...npage_engadget

RoboCup Soccer 2010 Finals, Diving is Real

The World Cup may still be ongoing (despite what the US, England, and a handful of others may think), but the RoboCup 2010 in Singapore has just closed shop with an edge-of-your-seat display of autonomous action. The final game came down to two German teams, the Darmstadt Dribblers and the FUmanoids. As seen at numerous points, both android teams have even learned the ancient art of diving, toeing the uncanny valley a little to close for comfort. Video after the break -- we won't to spoil the ending, so let's just say Germany won by a sizable margin.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/30/r...npage_engadget

[Locke]

Entire French 23 Man Roster Suspended.

A statement on the FFF website read: ''Laurent Blanc met this Friday, July 23, with the federal council, to whom he presented his staff and his sporting project. He also proposed to the federal council, who accepted, not to retain for the friendly against Norway, on Wednesday August 11 in Oslo, any of the 23 players officially selected by the French Football Federation for the World Cup in South Africa. Laurent Blanc will release the list of players retained for this match against Norway on Thursday August 5 at 11.30.''

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...global&cc=5901

[GirlySports]

Evra is still being made a scapegoat.
If I were him, I'd official retire from the national team and write a book naming names and spilling all the beans (What really happened?). It would make millions and he can just concentrate on playing for ManU.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

So they'll play the friendly but with an entirely new roster than the WC squad?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Evra is still being made a scapegoat.
If I were him, I'd official retire from the national team and write a book naming names and spilling all the beans (What really happened?). It would make millions and he can just concentrate on playing for ManU.

Evra is a tool, and I'm glad hes taking some of the blame. You can bet he had a significant influence on this entire ordeal.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

So they'll play the friendly but with an entirely new roster than the WC squad?

Its minor, but yeah, pretty much, hell, this should actually be GOOD for France. Besides, Ribery and Benzema are a little busy double teaming some kid.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Locke

Evra is a tool, and I'm glad hes taking some of the blame. You can bet he had a significant influence on this entire ordeal.

How so? He wasn't even supposed to be the captain. He was only captain cause Henry was on the bench.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

How so? He wasn't even supposed to be the captain. He was only captain cause Henry was on the bench.

He was supposed to be Captain, Henry was told that his role would be as a substitute so that Anelka could be on the field for the most part scoring tons and tons of (non-existant) goals.

Really, no one on that French team had the cred to be the Captain. Evra was the weakest of evils.

[Montana Moe]

Nm