Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Probably not, as with just about 100% of internet message board proposals. Just an idea to yak about.




I agree with that.



Disagree. Our two picks combined are worth more than their 15th over all, even if our two picks settle out at 23rd and 30th.

Just last year #14 was swapped for #21 and #42.

Question - why are you and others so eager to trade our 2 1st rounders to move up? Not being snarky but I'm a bit puzzled as to why we would want one less pick in the first round? Reinhart and Nelson may have similar career trajectories so we could very well be moving 2 1sts to slot up 8 spots. Think that we would get a similar player at 23 as we would at 15 and the Pitts pick is a steep price to pay if that is the case. If anything, would look at moving down with the StL and/or Pitts pick (ie 2 2nd rounders or a later 1st and a 2nd for either pick, contingent on who is still left on the board). Agree with you that it's fun to spitball ideas at each other but would like to know why others are interested in packaging up 2 1sts to move up when this could be the year to stockpile picks.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Question - why are you and others so eager to trade our 2 1st rounders to move up? Not being snarky but I'm a bit puzzled as to why we would want one less pick in the first round? Reinhart and Nelson may have similar career trajectories so we could very well be moving 2 1sts to slot up 8 spots. Think that we would get a similar player at 23 as we would at 15 and the Pitts pick is a steep price to pay if that is the case. If anything, would look at moving down with the StL and/or Pitts pick (ie 2 2nd rounders or a later 1st and a 2nd for either pick, contingent on who is still left on the board). Agree with you that it's fun to spitball ideas at each other but would like to know why others are interested in packaging up 2 1sts to move up when this could be the year to stockpile picks.

I'm not eager to trade our two first rounders to move up actually. I'm hoping we stand pat and get three solid to great prospects from the first round.

In this case however, I just happen to like Brock Nelson. 6'4 200lb center with great speed, and two way upside who had a really solid rookie year in the AHL.

With my proposal we end up with:

6th overall
15th overall
Brock Nelson

Instead of:

6th overall
19th-23rd overall
25th-30th overall
Max Reinhart

Like I said though, keeping all three picks and going BPA is just fine by me.

[albertGQ]

Yeah. I'm a big fan of Brock. Definitely worth the two first rounders provided we get the Isles one back.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

How about a deal like this:

To Isles:

C - Max Reinhart
Blues 2013 1st Round Pick (19th-24th Overall)
Penguins 2013 1st Round Pick (25th-30th Overall)

To Flames:

C - Brock Nelson
Islanders 2013 1st Round Pick (15th Overall)

Any reason why you think the flames would do that? Who would the flames target at 15? From my understanding from about 10-35 there isn't a huge difference. I might do that if we were jumping up to get a monahan or nishkunin, but otherwise I'd prefer to keep the picks.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Los Angeles win tonight guarantees the St Louis pick will be 23rd overall, at the latest. The pick can still move up a maximum of four spots (to 19th overall) depending on which teams make the Conference Finals.


For every one of the teams in green who make the Conference Finals, the Blues pick moves up one spot...

Chicago
Anaheim
Vancouver
St Louis
Los Angeles
San Jose
Detroit
Minnesota

Pittsburgh
Montreal
Washington
Boston
Toronto
Rangers
Ottawa
Islanders


A Detroit win on Sunday would guarantee the 22 overall pick because it would put 3 lower-ranked teams in the second round, guaranteeing at least one goes to the final four.

Unless one or more of the Leafs, Rangers, or Islanders can come back and win their series, the highest the pick could go would be 20th because Ottawa would be the only lower-ranked team in the second round.

Possibly the only time in my life you'll ever catch me cheering for the Leafs to win a series.

Rangers are 15 mins from tying the series.

I like it when the OOT has this much relevance to the Flames draft position.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Any reason why you think the flames would do that? Who would the flames target at 15?

Well, just thinking out loud, but 6th and 15th could be enough to move into the top 4 picks.

So Flames would go from

Max Reinhart
6th overall
Late 1st
Really late 1st

to

Brock Nelson
Top 4 pick

That might be worth looking at.

Despite being a deep draft, I think this might be a good year to give up picks to move up.

Here's my reasoning:

There are about 5 guys this year who are almost sure-fire future stars. That is not normal. Most years, if you want the guys on a trajectory to be NHL superstars, you need to be in the top 1 or 2.

As we saw this season, the Flames did everything they could to tank, and only managed to get down to 6th overall. There are several teams deliberately tanking each year, and it's not easy to out-tank them all.

Moving up to the top 4 this year gives you a strong chance at a franchise player. Most years that's not the case. Next year you might need to pick 1st or 2nd overall to get that calibre of player. And there's a lot of competition at the bottom.

So it might be worth it trying to move up 2 spots this year to get a potential franchise player. Because if the Flames finish 6th overall next season, they likely need to move up 4 or 5 spots to get that, and will have to pay more as a result of a bigger gap and fewer potential trading partners.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Agree to disagree

Don't see why you'd disagree.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Well, just thinking out loud, but 6th and 15th could be enough to move into the top 4 picks.

So Flames would go from

Max Reinhart
6th overall
Late 1st
Really late 1st

to

Brock Nelson
Top 4 pick

That might be worth looking at.

Despite being a deep draft, I think this might be a good year to give up picks to move up.

Here's my reasoning:

There are about 5 guys this year who are almost sure-fire future stars. That is not normal. Most years, if you want the guys on a trajectory to be NHL superstars, you need to be in the top 1 or 2.

As we saw this season, the Flames did everything they could to tank, and only managed to get down to 6th overall. There are several teams deliberately tanking each year, and it's not easy to out-tank them all.

Moving up to the top 4 this year gives you a strong chance at a franchise player. Most years that's not the case. Next year you might need to pick 1st or 2nd overall to get that calibre of player. And there's a lot of competition at the bottom.

So it might be worth it trying to move up 2 spots this year to get a potential franchise player. Because if the Flames finish 6th overall next season, they likely need to move up 4 or 5 spots to get that, and will have to pay more as a result of a bigger gap and fewer potential trading partners.

The problem with this logic is that if we (the flames) believe that you can get a franchise player in the top 4, then other teams probably believe the same. If it is true that you can get 4 franchise players this year, and only 2 next year, then it should be equally difficult to trade into the top 4 this year as it will be to trade into the top 2 next year. The value to trade to those franchise players will be the same, regardless if its a 4th pick this year vs the 2nd pick next year.

I'm quite happy to draft 6th, 22nd and 26th (or thereabouts) this season and have a good shot at 3 of the following... A top line forward, a second line forward and a top 4 (maybe 2) defenseman. I think we should keep the picks rather than paying a large price to get the potential franchise guy.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Don't see why you'd disagree.

I think you misread that whole exchange. Enoch Root was mocking you.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I think you misread that whole exchange. Enoch Root was mocking you.

Yeah, I knew that. Just didn't bite on his troll attempt.

[sureLoss]

I posted this trade idea a few weeks ago, but I thought I would bring it up again:

To Buffalo:
St. Louis 1st round (#19-23 overall)
Pittsburgh 1st round (#24-30 overall)

To Calgary:
Minneosta 1st round (#16 overall)
Buffalo 2nd round (#38 overall)

From a Flames prespective, the deal makes sense if a player that the Flames have ranked #10 or better falls to #16. The Flames then take a calculated risk that someone they have ranked in their top 30 will fall to #38. If all works out, the Flames walk away with 2 players they ranked in their top 10 (with the #6 and #16 overall picks) and a player in their top 30.

From a Buffalo perspective, the deal only makes sense if there is a group of players at 16 that their scouts rank similar (or in the same tier) and at least one of them will fall to the St. Louis pick. They also upgrade their 2nd round pick to potentially grab a player that they project not to be available at 38.

[JurassicTunga12]

What do you guys think of Oliver Bjorkstrand? Would you take him with the Pens 1st round pick?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by JurassicTunga12

What do you guys think of Oliver Bjorkstrand? Would you take him with the Pens 1st round pick?

No. a reach IMO, he's got slick talent but I see him in the 2nd-3rd round.

[getbak]

The Detroit first round win guarantees the Blues' pick moves up to #22 because both teams in the LA-SJ series were below the Blues in the regular season standings and one of them will be in the Conference Finals.

Depending on the results of tomorrow's games, the pick will either move up another spot (if both the Rangers and Leafs win); or it will guarantee that the pick can't go any higher than 20th (if both the Caps and Bruins win); or it will clarify nothing (if one home team wins and one road team wins tomorrow).


Red series wins don't help the pick, green series wins help the pick:

Chicago (1) vs Detroit (7)
Los Angeles (5) vs San Jose (6) -- Either way, the pick moves up

Pittsburgh (1) vs Ottawa (7)
Washington (3) / Rangers (6) vs Boston (4) / Toronto (5)



The potential position of the St Louis Blues' first round pick:

19 - 4 Conference Finalists below the Blues
20 - 3 Conference Finalists below the Blues
21 - 2 Conference Finalists below the Blues
22 - 1 Conference Finalist below the Blues
23 - 0 Conference Finalists below the Blues

[Vulcan]

Double reason to cheer for Ottawa. It will move the St. Louis pick up one and move the Pittsburgh pick up to 26th or maybe better.

[PlayfulGenius]

The PIT pick can't be better than 26th

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

The PIT pick can't be better than 26th

If Chicago loses too, I think it would be 25th.

[HitterD]

Pit pick can be as low as 25 if them and chicago are both eliminated in round 2

[Ryan Coke]

I think it could be 25th if Chicago loses to Detroit as well, no?

[PlayfulGenius]

Didn't PIT win the prez trophy??