Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Dan02

That would be easy enough to handle as you could just tell your electric car not to drain beyond x% in battery so you know you have enough range for whatever you're using it for the next day.

So it could charge it up to 100% when there is excess power capacity in the grid then set a limit it won't drain beyond 75% capacity if the power is requested by the grid. For an extended range Model S this would give you the equivalent of 2 powerwalls installed in your house which is enough to power the average house for a full day and still leave you with over 400km in driving range at 75% battery capacity. If you had a long range trip coming up you could always tell it to maintain 100% charge as well.

Obviously it would be very complex but its interesting to think about what the energy grid might look like 20 years from now.

The problem is you don't want to charge your car over 80% for the most part, so do you set it at 60%? 40%?. Then it's only a small amount of power helping the grid, and also causing wear and tear on your battery. It'd take a pretty big incentive for me to do that, but I guess when the spot price of electricity hits $999/MWh that might be enough to care. Probably not if you are only sharing a small amount though.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The problem is you don't want to charge your car over 80% for the most part, so do you set it at 60%? 40%?. Then it's only a small amount of power helping the grid, and also causing wear and tear on your battery. It'd take a pretty big incentive for me to do that, but I guess when the spot price of electricity hits $999/MWh that might be enough to care. Probably not if you are only sharing a small amount though.

Yes. Valid points.

Maybe in the extreme weather events it could help though, since there should be less vehicles on the road.

But it would have to be a very good incentive, like you said, for it to be worthwhile. I think me personally, if I had an ev, would just always want it charged fully (or to the optimum percentage).

So I guess ev’s generally probably would not be helpful to back feed or stabilize the grid. Hopefully the grid can handle the stress of extra ev’s. It will probably be ok in certain areas and more difficult to address in other areas.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1607431513192431618

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1607431513192431618

Oh my God! Seriously? Batteries are less effective in cold weather?! Since when?!?!

My gasoline fuelled car needs a battery to start and operate! I'm gonna be stranded on the highway!!!!!!

[Paulie Walnuts]

Check the range in your gas vehicle during summer and winter and you will see a difference as well.

54% seems like a exaggeration but it does go down.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Oh my God! Seriously? Batteries are less effective in cold weather?! Since when?!?!

My gasoline fuelled car needs a battery to start and operate! I'm gonna be stranded on the highway!!!!!!

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Oh my God! Seriously? Batteries are less effective in cold weather?! Since when?!?!

My gasoline fuelled car needs a battery to start and operate! I'm gonna be stranded on the highway!!!!!!

Yoho might be an irredeemable moron (or an AI without the I), but I don't get your reply at all. Plenty of owners in this thread are reporting similar range drops with their EVs. You aren't getting a 45-55% reduction in range with petrol cars when the temperature drops to those levels.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yoho might be an irredeemable moron (or an AI without the I), but I don't get your reply at all. Plenty of owners in this thread are reporting similar range drops with their EVs. You aren't getting a 45-55% reduction in range with petrol cars when the temperature drops to those levels.

And thats when they're brand new, I have a feeling that electric cars are going to see huge hits to their value as their batteries start deteriorating.

These saviours of the Earth are going to be cluttering junkyards.

I'm not entirely certain that these things were built with a lot of long-term vision.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Locke

And thats when they're brand new, I have a feeling that electric cars are going to see huge hits to their value as their batteries start deteriorating.

These saviours of the Earth are going to be cluttering junkyards.

I'm not entirely certain that these things were built with a lot of long-term vision.

To be honest the the battery degradation isn’t bad at all on Model 3’s. I suspect I could go 10 years on mine without issue. Lots of high mileage owners still reporting plenty of battery capacity. This will outlive the drivetrains of most cars.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1607431513192431618

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Oh my God! Seriously? Batteries are less effective in cold weather?! Since when?!?!

My gasoline fuelled car needs a battery to start and operate! I'm gonna be stranded on the highway!!!!!!

I don't think the point is unfair. My Car gets ~425KM at 20degrees. Loses almost 100KM / 25 degrees of dropping. At minus 35 it was barely getting 190 on a full charge, today we are probably sitting around 330 range.

Honestly not that big of a deal if you are able to plan your life around those realities and charge overnight at home. But people really should know what they are buying when they do buy.

*Highway also take about 50 KM off the range. so minus 35 on the highway, my 416KM rated EV might go less than 150KM (with my winter battery warmer turned on).

after owning an EV for two years, I'd say if you can install a place to home charge at 30+ Amps ( I do 50). and if your household will still have an ICEV, EV should be the only choice, they're cheaper to run and just drive better.

There's also a risk that 8+ years old the base line range could start shrinking. But I've heard the current gen of batteries are lasting longer than expected.

*We did a 7 hour trip last Christmas at minus 25. the EV turned it into a 11 hour trip, at that temp. Not a existential crisis, but people should know what they are getting into, and I should have taken the gas car on that one.

[GGG]

Where the technology is today most families second vehicle purchase could easily be an EV.

I still think PHEVs are a better use of scarce battery resources at this point. You get 8 of them for 1 EV if batteries are the limiting factor on production and you probably cover 75% of milage.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by #-3

I don't think the point is unfair. My Car gets ~425KM at 20degrees. Loses almost 100KM / 25 degrees of dropping. At minus 35 it was barely getting 190 on a full charge, today we are probably sitting around 330 range.

Honestly not that big of a deal if you are able to plan your life around those realities and charge overnight at home. But people really should know what they are buying when they do buy.

*Highway also take about 50 KM off the range. so minus 35 on the highway, my 416KM rated EV might go less than 150KM (with my winter battery warmer turned on).

after owning an EV for two years, I'd say if you can install a place to home charge at 30+ Amps ( I do 50). and if your household will still have an ICEV, EV should be the only choice, they're cheaper to run and just drive better.

There's also a risk that 8+ years old the base line range could start shrinking. But I've heard the current gen of batteries are lasting longer than expected.

*We did a 7 hour trip last Christmas at minus 25. the EV turned it into a 11 hour trip, at that temp. Not a existential crisis, but people should know what they are getting into, and I should have taken the gas car on that one.

Realistically, batteries lose effectiveness in cold weather. It's why weather stations tell you to use lithium AA batteries and not alkaline.

Yes my post was absurd. Almost as absurd as EV drivers being stranded.

Gasoline powered cars do have batteries that lose effectiveness in cold weather. This isn't a new phenomenon.

The article isn't some sort of 'gotcha' but more of a 'no s***' we already live with this.

Is it really that different from knowing you need to fill your gas tank?

Serious question, does your EV accurately display the charge during the winter months? Does the computer calculate how efficient the car is currently operating?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by GGG

Where the technology is today most families second vehicle purchase could easily be an EV.

I still think PHEVs are a better use of scarce battery resources at this point. You get 8 of them for 1 EV if batteries are the limiting factor on production and you probably cover 75% of milage.

I've been saying the same thing for a few years now. It's much more realistic. Didn't know these exact stats though!

[AltaGuy]

I don't get why there isn't a push for "swappable" batteries in EVs? So you drive up to a "gas station", they have a machine that pops out your battery and puts in a new one that's fully charged, and away you go. Maybe you can carry a spare one on longer trips. Batteries that no longer hold a charge get recycled.

Is it that Tesla et al are all jealously guarding their battery tech? This has been bothering me for awhile!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I don't get why there isn't a push for "swappable" batteries in EVs? So you drive up to a "gas station", they have a machine that pops out your battery and puts in a new one that's fully charged, and away you go. Maybe you can carry a spare one on longer trips. Batteries that no longer hold a charge get recycled.

Is it that Tesla et al are all jealously guarding their battery tech? This has been bothering me for awhile!

I think that would lead to people abusing the batteries more, and you possibly getting duds. They are very expensive, so just stocking them would be a big investment.

A lot of EV's are moving to structural batteries, so the pack is the floor of the vehicle. This saves weight, which is important given how heavy batteries are. Designing for swapability would mean all vehicles using that pack would need to be identical in shape. You also have more than just a battery plug, you have cooling and heating tubing to connect, along with monitoring. I think there are just too many sacrifices to be made.

I know they do it in China, but they live with the sacrifices, and I think it is mostly taxi companies doing it there?

[SebC]

Swappable batteries definitely seem the way to go for me. And the abuse incentives are easy to get around - just add a fee for overcharging/overdraining. The monitoring gets attached to the battery, so any duds could be identified before a customer gets stranded. You can make the standardized packs modular, so a long-range, large, or specialized vehicle might take multiple.

[Northendzone]

The swappable battery idea is interesting; however, I think in practice it is not overly workable.

Manufacturers would have to design vehicles around the same battery pack, you then need to have a tray system that is easy to manipulate and all the machinery around such a system. To me it seems battery packs are the biggest thing that will change over the next few years as hopefully thier storage capacity increases

Also, who will pay to stock extra the extra batteries. Would the folks at Petro-Canada want to invest in purchasing thousands of batteries to support this infrastructure

[The Fisher Account]

There was an Israeli company years ago who really wanted to push this idea. Think I read about them in Scientific American.

I think the infrastructure needed to hoist the batteries and swap them just seemed to much to overcome.

[The Fisher Account]

My aunt at Christmastime was ragging on Trudeau for not accepting shipments of Children's Tylenol from the US because the labels weren't written in French. I can't seem to find anything online that supports this claim.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The battery in a model S weighs 1200 pounds. That's going to require quite an effort to swap... probably just easier to charge the thing.