Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

I can assure everybody I am not KK, if I was, CalgaryNext and its proposal would have been far better sold to all parties involved.

Prove it...did you ever read the jersey thread??
We asked you SO MANY TIMES!!!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Krovikan

They are just doing this because their new security measures are making it impossible for people to get seated in time.

Not just. If you draw people in 90 minutes early, you have extra time to sell them things.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

Cost aside, CalgaryNext is a nice concept.

In spite of all the logistical problems which I think would probably be overcome with additional input, I also think that CalgaryNext would be a great addition to the city.

If, as most of you say, the idea has been scrapped, what is the long range plan for cleaning up the area which is contaminated by the creosote? Are they just going to leave it until it starts killing people who drink their water from the Bow?

[You Need a Thneed]

CalgaryNext was a proposal that:

1 - In all likelihood would have compromises for both the stadium, and the field house, it wouldn’t be ideal or either.

2 - Wouldn’t work well in that particular location - becasue of the size of the building, in that location, it would end up isolating itself from everywhere else.

3 - Would be impossible to build under the proposed funding structure. The city doesn’t want to put in $200 million for a feildhouse if they don’t get a full feildhouse. But mostly, The all in project costs, directly and indirectly related to the project, were more than a CRL could ever hope to earn back.


CSEC has been pushing the line “We want to help the city build this needed building” but have never acted like they want to be partners. They apparently never asked the city for thoughts on whether certain financing elements are even remotely possible, all the while expecting the city to simply say yes. If you want the city to be partners in a project, shouldn’t you include the city as a partner from the start?


Frankly, there are only two options. Either they don’t know how city financing works (I.e. they are stupid - at least they could ask?), or they do know how it works (which means they are knowingly trying to Con the city). There simply isn’t another option. I don’t think they are stupid - it’s pretty hard to build successful businesses like they have if you are.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

If, as most of you say, the idea has been scrapped, what is the long range plan for cleaning up the area which is contaminated by the creosote? Are they just going to leave it until it starts killing people who drink their water from the Bow?

People forget that the City had an ongoing redevelopment plan for the west village area long before CalgaryNext came around.

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documen...illage-arp.pdf

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

CSEC has been pushing the line “We want to help the city build this needed building” but have never acted like they want to be partners. They apparently never asked the city for thoughts on whether certain financing elements are even remotely possible, all the while expecting the city to simply say yes. If you want the city to be partners in a project, shouldn’t you include the city as a partner from the start?

Yeah, I feel like we shouldn't have ever heard the name "CalgaryNext" unless/until CSEC had at least already gotten municipal buy-in on the concept (if not the finer details). Get ballpark agreement on the what, where, and how much before flashing it around town.

[TheAlpineOracle]

In more impotent matters, are these the draught beers that are on special smaller than the regular draught beers they serve during th game? I’m assuming yes at 14oz. I’m assuming the ones they sell normally are 18oz (just short of a full pint).

[TheAlpineOracle]

In more impotent matters, are these the draught beers that are on special smaller than the regular draught beers they serve during th game? I’m assuming yes at 14oz. I’m assuming the ones they sell normally are 18oz (just short of a full pint).

[RM14]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

In more impotent matters, are these the draught beers that are on special smaller than the regular draught beers they serve during th game? I’m assuming yes at 14oz. I’m assuming the ones they sell normally are 18oz (just short of a full pint).

I wonder if 14oz is the smaller red cups usually used for single hi-balls. Those will go down fast. Hopefully this helps liven up the crowd for the opening draw. Saddledome could use a shot of energy.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

In more impotent matters, are these the draught beers that are on special smaller than the regular draught beers they serve during th game? I’m assuming yes at 14oz. I’m assuming the ones they sell normally are 18oz (just short of a full pint).

They make you impotent? Now you tell me.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

In more impotent matters, are these the draught beers that are on special smaller than the regular draught beers they serve during th game? I’m assuming yes at 14oz. I’m assuming the ones they sell normally are 18oz (just short of a full pint).

Or the beer just needs some Viagra to prop it back up to a healthy 18oz size.

[getbak]

The regular draft beers they sell at the game are advertised as 18oz, but the cups themselves are stamped 20oz. To further complicate things, they're 20 US oz, which is 591mL. An imperial pint is 20 Imperial oz, which is 568mL.

Either way, you're getting more than advertised.


The 14oz cups they'll be using are likely the same ones they pour cans into and use for highballs. Those ones can hold a full 12oz can of beer with room left over, so they're likely 14oz cups.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by RM14

Do we have an all things Saddledome thread?


On a possessive note.. The Flames have introduced "Happy Hour" in the dome before each game.

No new arena necessary now

I'm only going if Ken King is slinging drinks and stirring the boiled hot dog water.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They make you impotent? Now you tell me.

8 dome foams will do that to anyone!

[Joborule]

Considering what others have said that CSEC is interested in real estate development along with building a new arena, it forces a timeline for them to follow if they want to have as much control and influence as possible before an Olympic bid could possibly take control out of their hands.

The CMLC conducted Victoria Park/Rivers District draft plan should be getting presented soon, which would include how the arena should be integrated with the area as a whole. CSEC is involved as a stakeholder. With that on the horizon, and council beginning again next month, I'm interested to see if arena talks pick back up again after the plan is released. Maybe not formally announced publicly, but that should be the time that would make the arena talk have renewed attention for a brief bit.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm willing to bet there is nothing on Bill Smith's donor list that is blatantly CSEC. I don't think they're that dumb.

How many times have we said "I don't think they're that dumb", in regards to CSEC, only to be proven wrong?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

How many times have we said "I don't think they're that dumb", in regards to CSEC, only to be proven wrong?

They've comically overestimated their value in the community, but I don't think they've acted outright stupidly.

edit: however, if that overestimated value had convinced them that their support would ensure Smith an election win, maybe they didn't bother to obscure their financial support. That would be embarrassing.

[Mr.Coffee]

On the other hand there probably also is a group that's comically underrated their value in the community (myself in included).

Still side with the city overall though.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Pellanor

Area not Arena. I was referring to the general revitalization effort / entertainment district. If the flames don't negotiate, does the city plan something else to do with the proposed space as part of this effort?

The land is allocated to the stampede. The stampede would use it for whatever they have planned. As an entertainment group, the stampede might want help putting an arena there anyway for themselves.

[Southside]

Neat concept mentioned as model for the Flames arena.

https://insidehockey.com/rossettis-i...-arena-design/