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Old 12-16-2011, 05:42 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by KelVarnsen View Post
Fuel charges are different at every airport, just like fees.
Yeah, no kidding.

Air Canada's fuel surcharges:

YYC-LHR - 4400 miles approx: $281
YYC-NRT - 5000 miles approx: $208
YVR-SYD - 7800 miles approx: $165

It's a scam. Distance and fuel used have nothing to do with it. Oh, and don't forget Aeroplan charging their fuel charge on US flights, which Air Canada doesn't do.

Fuel is part of the cost. There is no reason to have a "surcharge". Fedex/UPS do it these days too. Just raise the darn price. Imagine if tomatoes were $1.09 per pound with a $1.00 per pound fuel surcharge?

Data is from here (it's a pdf).
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:32 AM   #362
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Didn't see this here, flight footage from a Cf-18. Pump up the volume turn it to 720 hd and blast it to full screen.

enjoy

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Old 12-17-2011, 08:34 PM   #363
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Air New Zealand has two A320's in the All Blacks livery, now they have a 777.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:50 AM   #364
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That livery is beyond awesome.
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Old 12-18-2011, 01:20 PM   #365
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Cool article on ctv about the Avero Arrow.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=CalgaryHome
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:15 PM   #366
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Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I found a great site through another forum showing some great low level flying of mostly wartime aircraft:

Lower than a Snake's Belly in a Wagon Rut

Some of them were a bit too low...


Home Page: vintagewings.ca
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:56 AM   #367
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Where all my Avgeeks at in 2012?

Some great footage of crosswind landing at Dusseldorf during a storm:

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Old 01-13-2012, 12:13 PM   #368
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The massive winglets on the 737NG are awesome.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:53 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewboy12 View Post
Cool article on ctv about the Avero Arrow.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=CalgaryHome
From that article:

Quote:
"People don't realize that Canada was by far and away on the cutting edge of aerospace technology. Light years ahead of everyone else. That's the real story, never mind the mystery about why it was cancelled."
That just makes me so sad.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:42 PM   #370
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From that article:



That just makes me so sad.
It is what it is.

The truth of the matter is that we were trying to "punch" WAY "above our weight" as a nation during this period and given the other pressing burdens on the DND's budget, the Arrow was an extravagance that the nation could not afford...period. When the axe fell at Malton, Canada was facing some other major procurement issues. Pre-eminent among these was the re-equipment of the 9 day fighter (Sabre5/6) and 3 all weather (CF-100 MkV) fighter squadrons based in Europe, as part of our NATO commitment. Funds had already been recently committed to a large naval construction program; huge funds were also being spent on infrastructure at the time.

The problem with the Arrow was that it was perfect for us, the US, and the USSR. The US already had a "Billion Dollar Baby" (boondoggle) of their own, the "1954 Interceptor", (i.e. F-106). Selling CF-105's to the Russians wasn't in the cards.

So what it comes down to is the cold hard truth that despite the fact that we'd blown a ton of money getting the program to the point it was, we still had not flown an aircraft with the indigenous (Iroquois) engines, the automated (SAGE integrated) weapons system was still years from IOC and we had no customers to help defer the massive R&D funds that had got us this far into it. Avro was quick to jump on the "Cook-Craigie" theory (all the rage south of the border at the time) whereby hand built prototypes were to be dispensed with, in favor of building the tooling and production jigs and building "pre-production" aircraft...then tweaking the jigging as required. This sucked up a ton of money and yes, the production line was ready to commence full series production at the time of cancellation, but this cost a pile of upfront money and rubbed some "people" the wrong way...some of these in the upper levels of RCAF, truth be told.

The bird was a significant achievement but as it sat on the tarmac on that fatal day...it was still very much a work in progress. Far from the operational interceptor that (we thought) we needed.
Convair's F-106 is illustrative of what would still be required if we wanted to get the CF-105 from where it was, into frontline service with the RCAF/NORAD. The USAF threw bucketloads of money at the MX-201/MX-1179 programmes (F-106 and MA-1 weapons system) and eventually it was produced...300 units in total, cut from an initial "requirement", on the order of ~2000.

The F-106 finally reached IOC, almost ten years late, billions over budget and with so many bugs (being "fixed" on the assembly line) that some 16 plane Squadrons had as many as five (significantly) different versions sitting on the same flight line. The Republic F-105 Thunderchief was pretty much the same story.

FWIW, when the "plug" was "pulled" the "ASTRA" weapons system (being developed by the Canadian subsidiary of RCA) was on the verge of entering litigation (this was being filed by Hughes) for propriortory patent infringements. This system eventually matured and surfaced on the F-14 Tomcat...in the early '70's.

Bottom line? It all looks good with 50 years of hindsight; the people who actually made the decision to "pull the plug" (and it WASN'T Diefenbaker) on our "Ultimate Interceptor" knew a heck of a lot more about the extant situation than anyone sitting here lamenting the "demise" of Canada's aviation industry could ever hope to.

The CF-101 did a fine job for our NORAD needs.
The F-101B was the (de facto) "Ultimate Interceptor" for the USAF's ADC during the first half of the 1960's.
The F-101A/C was the "stand in" for the (delayed) F-105, in the role of low level penetration (nuclear) fighter-bomber at the same time.

Damned fine machine that Voodoo.

Bomarc...on the other hand?

Cheers, Ron

Last edited by Bindair Dundat; 01-13-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:31 AM   #371
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^ I see a lot in that about sunk costs, which should have been irrelevant at the time of the decision.
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:38 AM   #372
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I wonder how well that YYC-NRT flight is doing for AC. Glad it's still around after the beating Japan took last year.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:04 AM   #373
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I wonder how well that YYC-NRT flight is doing for AC. Glad it's still around after the beating Japan took last year.
This should be a good indication of how it is doing:

Air Canada to Boost Calgary – Tokyo Narita Service in 2012


Air Canada starting 27APR12 is increasing Calgary – Tokyo Narita service from 3 to 5 weekly, for the summer season. It also plans to convert this seasonal service to year-round flight.

The Star Alliance member was due to implement this plan in 2011, but was cancelled due to immediate market downturn after March Earthquake in Northeastern Japan.

http://airlineroute.net/2011/11/10/ac-yycnrt-s12/


Air Canada is one the record multiple times saying that in addition to year-round service they want to eventually make this a daily flight. They just need permission from the Japanese authorities for that.
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:02 PM   #374
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So this make it easier to hop on a connecting ANA 787 I assume.
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:00 AM   #375
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So this make it easier to hop on a connecting ANA 787 I assume.
I think ANA is operating their 787's out of Haneda right now.
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:31 AM   #376
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^ I see a lot in that about sunk costs, which should have been irrelevant at the time of the decision.
And the sunk costs were irrelevant to those who made the decision. This is evident in the fact that they chose to "cut their losses" and walk away from the table, rather than mortgage the future of the entire frontline combat strength of the RCAF.

What wasn't irrelevant was the fact that despite it's great potential, it still remained just that: potential. The tech that they were trying to achieve ("fly-by-wire" controls and a "look down-shoot down" radar/guided missile system, integrated into a system of ground-based radar control stations) was pushing way too hard against the "barriers" of the extant electronics capabilities. Hughes finally made MA-1 (the system the Arrow was originally "spec'd" for) work, but this took a "US-sized" defense budget. Tying the "in-house" development costs of such an apparatus (which were by no means clearly "defined") to the Arrow project, was the "straw that broke the camel's back".

As I mentioned in my previous post on the subject, the funds had been invested from the RCAF's slice of the total DND budget. At the point of cancellation, these monies had bought them a fully completed airframe production line (with twenty-odd machines in various states of production moving along it), five flying pre-production machines with J 75 engines, an indigenous engine that was still a long way from IOC (Initial Operational Capability), and a weapons system that was also years (and tens, if not a hundred million dollars) away from service; one which was also about to get the proverbial "rug pulled out from under it" by means of a lawsuit being brought by one of the richest men on the planet...

"Hughes" is "that" Hughes...
(and it's not "Hewes"...this is important.)

I am not like the myriad of authors that suggest the aircraft itself was flawed, far from it. Arrow was an amazing achievement (as an advanced airframe) and Iroquois pushed axial turbojets to another level as well.

I truly wish they would have flown RL 206 with the Iroquois (before scrapping the program), just so we would have a definitive answer to "that question".

With respect to this "great unknown", one thing that is worth pointing out?

The fact that application of additional thrust power to an airframe design is not a lineal equation. Some of the "attempts" I've seen at "extrapolating" performance data for an Iroquois powered machine are just plain ignorant as to the aerodynamics/physics involved.

In summation?

The RCAF had fallen into a trap. This was created by the great success of the CF-100, an economically produced "home grown" air defense solution; one tailored to our specific national requirements. They (and AVRO) thought we were now ready to play with the "big boys".

We weren't...not in light of our huge defense committments and our small taxation base...It was a hard lesson to learn.

Ron
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:54 AM   #377
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It's been mentioned here before in whispers and hushed voices, but now it's officially out there.

WestJet Regional Airline May Be Reality As Early As 2013

Quote:
Few details were available on the proposed regional operation, other than that the Calgary-based company is thinking about launching it as early as 2013 using a fleet of approximately 40 smaller, turboprop aircraft.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:48 PM   #378
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A prop WestJet regional airline would be risky. Its a great way to funnel in passengers to larger hubs in Canada, the trick will be keeping crew costs low.
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Old 01-17-2012, 01:27 PM   #379
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How many gates does YYC have for turbo props and aren't they way on the other side of the terminal from Westjet?
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:10 PM   #380
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How many gates does YYC have for turbo props and aren't they way on the other side of the terminal from Westjet?
I do believe that the Dash 8-400Q's commonly use Jetways, I believe Porter uses them in Halifax, I'm assuming that the international flights also use Jetways for their Dash 8-400Q. It's a 70-74 seat aircraft which I believe is taller than the CRJ's anyway.
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