5 killed on Macleod trail crash - Update: GUILTY!

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by FireFly

So the real question then is why does a recovering alcoholic have a previously opened bottle of vodka in the cab of his vehicle? Wouldn't that also be illegal? Not to mention stupid? Because I'm quite certain that if I went to take a drink out of my water bottle, and just picked up a vodka bottle instead, when I opened it, if it wasn't already open, I would look at it when I felt the seal crack.

Maybe I don't have the facts straight? Was it a half empty bottle of vodka sitting in his cab? Do you think it's wise as a recovering alcoholic to have one within reach while you're driving?

It's just so much BS, I do hope the cross examiner tore a hole through his testimony.

Maybe Tschetter keeps the bottle to pass around to buddies on the job site after a hard day. Maybe it's to celebrate the end of a job. Who knows. I know people that keep all sorts of liquor around in case someone else wants some. Maybe not in their vehicle, of course, but at their place of work? Perhaps it's not the brightest course of action but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. No one's accused Tschetter of being a rocket surgeon and if you read his testimony, well...

So it's dumb to keep the bottle in the cab. Probably illegal but even then, only a minor offence.

Accident happens. Shock sets in. He's not as strong as others and doesn't have his wits about him. Can't fault him for being a human. Maybe a weak human. He feels sick. Physically ill. Oh gawd. Maybe a drink of water will help. Where's that water bottle.... here it is under the seat. Glug, glug, blargh! This isn't water, it's vodka! Oh noes! My sobriety!

Crap, now I was in a horrible accident and I reak of booze. This isn't going to be good. What's going to happen to my family? No one's going to believe I was sober! Aaagh! What's this bottle still doing in my hand? Better get rid of it.

No one would ever believe that I was sober. Do I want to take a breathlyzer test? Why would I do that? I read on an internet message board one time that I should never take the test so...

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Maybe Tschetter ...

Yah, that was quite a stretch.

[CaptainCrunch]

I was looking for a good picture of Lionel Hutz to post for ya

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Why do people have the right to refuse breathalyzer tests? And are there automatic charges filed if you do refuse?

How would you force someone to take a breathalyzer? Yes, there is a refusal to blow charge.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by fredr123

No one's accused Tschetter of being a rocket surgeon and if you read his testimony, well...

Most Hutterites would only have a grade 9 education at best. More likely grade 7 or 8.

[FireFly]

My point was this: Does a recovering coke addict keep a stash around for buddies? How about a former pot-head? A recovering alcoholic tends to have an empty liquor cabinet. Why face temptation? Do any ex-smokers here have a pack of cigarettes laying around for a buddy?

[TheyCallMeBruce]

How the hell do you mistake a bottle of vodka for a bottle of water? seriously, I didn't know Vodka bottles look exactly like water bottles, unless he keeps his water in a vodka bottle.

Vodka Bottle
Water Bottle

[burn_this_city]

Such a solid defence.

[Eddie Bronze]

You don't need to take a swig to tell the difference from 40% alcohol and water. You can smell it, it's a disgusting smell. Much like the odor he is omitting right now. Like I already said, drunk or not he's still a murderer. Alcohol can change a lot of things, but it can't change that.

[Azure]

You can buy Smirnoff in plastic bottles.

No way he didn't know what he was drinking though.

Thats just a load of crap.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by fredr123

In any event, it doesn't matter whether you or the judge believe Tschetter or not. It's sufficient even if you don't believe the accused's story that if it raises a reasonable doubt you must acquit. Mind you, the vodka thing is a minor part in the grand scheme of things and probably only affects the length of his sentence rather than whether he is guilty or not.

I've re-read your post a couple of times and I think I need you to clarify... it doesn't matter if we believe his testimony or not? Even if we think he is lying, he said something about his innocence so that makes reasonable doubt?

I think that was the premise for a "Kids in the Hall" sketch.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I've re-read your post a couple of times and I think I need you to clarify... it doesn't matter if we believe his testimony or not? Even if we think he is lying, he said something about his innocence so that makes reasonable doubt?

I think that was the premise for a "Kids in the Hall" sketch.

I was badly paraphrasing the (in)famous case of R v. W(D) http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/...1canlii93.html

W(D) concerned jury instructions with respect to how to apply the reasonable doubt analysis to the evidence. It is also used when there is a judge alone and was recently summarized in the Alberta Provincial Court like this:

1. If I believe the evidence of the accused, I must acquit him;
2. If I do not believe the evidence of the accused but am left in reasonable doubt by it, I must acquit him;
3. Even if I am not left in doubt by the evidence of the accused, I must ask myself whether, on the basis of the evidence which I do accept, I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt by that evidence of the guilt of the accused.


It was of limited applicability in my example because all this talk about whether he was impaired or not probably won't affect whether he is found guilty or not. At best, it may affect the length of his sentence.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by FireFly

My point was this: Does a recovering coke addict keep a stash around for buddies? How about a former pot-head? A recovering alcoholic tends to have an empty liquor cabinet. Why face temptation? Do any ex-smokers here have a pack of cigarettes laying around for a buddy?

A recovering alcoholic, who supposedly has gone to AA meetings weekly for almost 18 years, would not have liquor around period, not for himself, not for customer appreciation.

Nor would he accept liquor from his boss as any reward either.

Sounds to me like he has been hiding his alcoholism while he has continued to go to AA meetings and the like. Or else he has gone off the wagon again, he did say he had 2 previous lapses.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

well i have been in a fatality accident before and i can tell you drinking something or eating something was the farthest thing from my mind. I was ejected from the car and as soon as i stopped moving from the ejection i was trying to find my 1st wife and make sure she was ok ( which she was not) and as i was tending to my wife i was trying to find the lady who hit us to make sure she was ok...... there was nothing on my mind other than making sure everyone was ok...... i dont see how i could have drank something , then take the time to realize what i drank and how to conceal the fact that i drank it in the time period.......

i also would like to note that i was never asked to provide a breathalyzer or blood sample to test for drugs and or alcohol but when i got in the ambulance and "stabalized " they stuck a needle in my arm and after they drew blood they then informed me that they were using that as blood sample to test for drugs and alcohol. They informed me after my wife had passed they did it on my wife too. FUnny thing is they never could produce or find the test results for the lady that hit us ..... however thats running a little off topic but i believe if you are in a motor vehicle accident you should be required to submit a blood sample and/or breath test to rule out blood and drugs...

[redforever]

When my daughter was in an accident, that hit and run on her by a drunk driver, they drew blood from her and tested it as well.

Course she was not at fault, but I guess they do that anyhow.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by redforever

When my daughter was in an accident, that hit and run on her by a drunk driver, they drew blood from her and tested it as well.

Course she was not at fault, but I guess they do that anyhow.

yeah but isnt it crappy that they probably did it to the victims in this accident but couldnt force it upon the person who caused the accident

[RougeUnderoos]

It's pretty hard to say what anyone would do in this kind of situation. You can't really say "if I'd just killed 5 people, the last thing I'd do was look for a drink of water". You'd just as likely fill your pants, dance a jig or take a swig of a misshapen water bottle as anything else.

That being said, swigging from a bottle of vodka sounds like something a drunk (or drunk person) would do, and depending on how pissed they are at the time, might not even think it's wrong, think "nobody 'll notice" or be so polluted that they don't even consider how stupid it is. Staggering to the back and tossing the bottle in the "hopper" is just an extension of crazy-drunk behaviour.

I don't mean to trivialize this tragedy or equate it with something so petty, but anyone ever drunk-dialled? Done something really stupid when drunk? What's the first thing you think of doing after you figured out how dumb you are? Have another drink! Can't hurt now, can it?

Seems to me that's what this guy might have been "thinking". Roaring down Macleod Trail at 125 in a cement truck -- well, you just gotta be drunk to do that. So drunk that after the crash you figure another pull from the "customer appreciation" ain't going to change anything now.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Seems to me that's what this guy might have been "thinking". Roaring down Macleod Trail at 125 in a cement truck -- well, you just gotta be drunk to do that. So drunk that after the crash you figure another pull from the "customer appreciation" ain't going to change anything now.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not, but maybe he drank the Vodka at the scene so that later on he could use the defence that he wasn't drunk while he was driving, but became drunk after the accident because he drank a bottle of vodka.

[flip]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not, but maybe he drank the Vodka at the scene so that later on he could use the defence that he wasn't drunk while he was driving, but became drunk after the accident because he drank a bottle of vodka.

You mean like the episode of The Practice?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Cement+...007/story.html

Apparently he was watching a pressure gauge instead of the road. My truck is full of gauges, I dont really have a problem glancing down for a split second to check it before I look back at the road. His story is such hogwash..

You really shouldn't have a problem glancing down to gauges, but it's not exactly unheard of for drivers to be paying attention to anything but the road.

I was rear ended by a semi without a trailer on barlow, must've been going around 60 just before he hit us and he'd probably barely touched the brakes. Fortunately I was in a flatbed with a couple thousand pounds of material on it and we were towing a compressor so I didn't really get much of a jolt, but if there was a car between us it would've been an ugly scene.