Ban organized religion, says Elton John

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I thought God was supposed to be benevolent. This sounds more like he's egomaniacal.

You probably heard that from someone who was "just going through the motions". As for God being an egomaniac: An egomaniac thinks he is more than he is. God Knows exactly who He is-The Creator and sustainer of all.

What about Christians who don't truly accept what they've been spoon-fed, and just go through the motions?

God knows and judges a persons heart. Faith can't be seen with the human eye; Although we can often see the results of a persons faith in their actions. God's call in any case.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

God knows and judges a persons heart. Faith can't be seen with the human eye; Although we can often see the results of a persons faith in their actions. God's call in any case.

So if a person is genuinely good but does not subscribe to Christian ideals, they are going to hell? That seems really logical...

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So if a person is genuinely good but does not subscribe to Christian ideals, they are going to hell? That seems really logical...

It is logical that a creator would require something of His creation. If the creature rejects the Creator why wouldn't the Creator judge His creation harshly?

Regarding Christian ideals. Salvation isn't through being good enough or keeping yourself good enough. Salvation occurs when you turn from this world unto Jesus Christ and receive Him as your Lord and Saviour. by faith. At that point in time you are adopted as a son and treated as a child of God. I don't live in fear of hell if I disapoint God through sin. I avoid sin because it ruins the relationship I have with God. When I sin I repent of that sin, confessing it to God directly and God forgives and restores that relationship.

I'm telling you this because there are segments of christianity which regardless of what they say, are working their way to heaven in various degrees of fear. Also, my pastor is not my priest. I don't confess my sins to him and I don't blindly follow him. We don't always agree and I'm just as free to express my opinion within the church as I am here.

[Cheese]

Fantasyland

Illusions

God is Imaginary!

Noahs Ark Looking at the evidence

There is No God

The Interview with God

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

It is logical that a creator would require something of His creation. If the creature rejects the Creator why wouldn't the Creator judge His creation harshly?

Who's logic are you basing your answer on? The logic of the Christian church or something else? If its goD didnt he create man to think for himself...and if he desired man to want something of him, why didnt he simply program it into our psyche?

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Religion should not have to change its defenition because a few people are offended by it.

MYK

i agree ... except that the note should be added, religion should not control or have any input into a state affair of marriage.

if a church doesnt want to marry two men, that is their right. if two men want to marry, the church should have no say in the manner if they arent asked to perform the service and the govt has no right to deny equal rights to this couple.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The few churches that the Soviets allowed were under direct control of the State. They had to send their sermons into be inspected before they could be preached. Each church member had to register with the government and were restricted from obtaining membership with the communist party or a position within the government.

And the Catholic church doesn't exactly condone priests who stray from the "Party line" either do they? Does that make the church the same as Supreme Soviet?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

It is logical that a creator would require something of His creation. If the creature rejects the Creator why wouldn't the Creator judge His creation harshly?

Truth be told, it isn't logical.

If an all powerful being created the heaven and earth I'd think he wouldn't need the ego stoke of "worship me!!!!".

I don't expect my pets to worship me. Most people don't expect their children to worship them. Instead they give them unconditional love.

I guess I give the Creator more credit than you do.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

It is logical that a creator would require something of His creation. If the creature rejects the Creator why wouldn't the Creator judge His creation harshly?

Regarding Christian ideals. Salvation isn't through being good enough or keeping yourself good enough. Salvation occurs when you turn from this world unto Jesus Christ and receive Him as your Lord and Saviour. by faith. At that point in time you are adopted as a son and treated as a child of God. I don't live in fear of hell if I disapoint God through sin. I avoid sin because it ruins the relationship I have with God. When I sin I repent of that sin, confessing it to God directly and God forgives and restores that relationship.

I'm telling you this because there are segments of christianity which regardless of what they say, are working their way to heaven in various degrees of fear. Also, my pastor is not my priest. I don't confess my sins to him and I don't blindly follow him. We don't always agree and I'm just as free to express my opinion within the church as I am here.

I guess even for those who believe God, the definition of sin is different. To me, there is no way homosexuality is a sin.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Who's logic are you basing your answer on? The logic of the Christian church or something else? If its goD didnt he create man to think for himself...and if he desired man to want something of him, why didnt he simply program it into our psyche?

If God programed it into our psyche then He couldn't say: "whosoever will may come". Evidently God wants us to choose Him. This is the base problem with Calvinism; They believe that a man will come unto Jesus if it is God's will for that to happen. But Gods will is "whosoever will".

God does program man with an awareness of a higher power. That is why you won't find a culture without a religion. People will fill that void with some invention of their imagination if they don't know God.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Truth be told, it isn't logical.

If an all powerful being created the heaven and earth I'd think he wouldn't need the ego stoke of "worship me!!!!".

I don't think it is an ego trip to want love.

I don't expect my pets to worship me. Most people don't expect their children to worship them. Instead they give them unconditional love.

I guess I give the Creator more credit than you do.

You expect your dog to show obedience and give you attention when you want it. If your dog wouldn't listen to you and spent his days destroying the house and harming the other pets, I bet he wouldn't be around for long.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

i agree ... except that the note should be added, religion should not control or have any input into a state affair of marriage.

A church should not be involved in government. A Christians should exercise his or her influence within a free society. They should vote, communicate their values and seek leadership within the government which will represent those values. I for one have no intention of surrendering my country to the atheists to run as they see fit. Having a religious world view doesn't make you less of a citizen or disqualify you from having an equal voice. We are not communist China yet.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

If God programed it into our psyche then He couldn't say: "whosoever will may come". Evidently God wants us to choose Him. This is the base problem with Calvinism; They believe that a man will come unto Jesus if it is God's will for that to happen. But Gods will is "whosoever will".

God does program man with an awareness of a higher power. That is why you won't find a culture without a religion. People will fill that void with some invention of their imagination if they don't know God.

Your not serious are you? Do you have any idea at all why religion is so ingrained? This has been hashed and rehashed a thousand times, yet you haul out the same drivel ad nauseum. Man has had little or no choice up until the last century or so but to follow religion. Its not that a child is born with a wonderment of God/Jesus/Mohammed/Buddha or any other serial goD. Children are BRAINWASHED into believing in a Santa god at a young age by parents who have been brainwashed before them. The last 100 years or so, secular reasoning has been allowed to seperate itself from the grasp of the theist. There are now many countries that are moving to a complete secular lifestyle...in the next 100 years many more will join them.
Religion will be replaced with spirituality...a knowledge of the planets and lifecycles of the species. That spirituality will be "knowledge based" as opposed to fantasy.
Believe it or not...its people like you that are moving people away from religion at a faster pace...for that I say "Thank You"...and a hearty keep it up!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEua...elated&search=

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Your not serious are you? Do you have any idea at all why religion is so ingrained? This has been hashed and rehashed a thousand times, yet you haul out the same drivel ad nauseum. Man has had little or no choice up until the last century or so but to follow religion. Its not that a child is born with a wonderment of God/Jesus/Mohammed/Buddha or any other serial goD. Children are BRAINWASHED into believing in a Santa god at a young age by parents who have been brainwashed before them. The last 100 years or so, secular reasoning has been allowed to seperate itself from the grasp of the theist. There are now many countries that are moving to a complete secular lifestyle...in the next 100 years many more will join them.
Religion will be replaced with spirituality...a knowledge of the planets and lifecycles of the species. That spirituality will be "knowledge based" as opposed to fantasy.
Believe it or not...its people like you that are moving people away from religion at a faster pace...for that I say "Thank You"...and a hearty keep it up!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEua...elated&search=

I don't like the term "spirituality". There are no spirits as far as I know. Let's just all be HUMANS.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

A church should not be involved in government. A Christians should exercise his or her influence within a free society. They should vote, communicate their values and seek leadership within the government which will represent those values. I for one have no intention of surrendering my country to the atheists to run as they see fit. Having a religious world view doesn't make you less of a citizen or disqualify you from having an equal voice. We are not communist China yet.

Right-o chappy!
Theist groups have launched a full-scale attack on modern science for a variety of political and social reasons. While Christian fundamentalists want it censored or rewritten to match their religious system, New Age type religion resorts to distortion and misuse to promote a political agenda, which in the end takes on a religious aspect. Both of these groups weave an intricate web of lies, misinformation, and fears, which is a greater danger to our freedoms.
You yourself have admitted you think science is crap and are an ardent believer in the 6000 year old earth!

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I don't think it is an ego trip to want love.

Sure, it's normal (at least for humans) to want to be loved. But to demand to be loved by every single sentient being and to damn all those who hate you and all those who neither love nor hate you to eternal torture... well, that's just a bit of an ego-trip.

You expect your dog to show obedience and give you attention when you want it. If your dog wouldn't listen to you and spent his days destroying the house and harming the other pets, I bet he wouldn't be around for long.

As Longsuffering said, he doesn't expect worship. If I've got a dog that doesn't do what I say but it generally good-natured, I don't give him to some sick teen up in Didsbury to torture; I probably love him regardless. On the other hand, if I had a dog who was destructive and violent toward other pets, I would feel that I had not done a good job as an owner. Or, if I had got the dog second-hand, I might feel that the previous owner had mistreated the dog. In either case, not the dog's fault; he's a product of human engineering and human nurturing. If a dog is dangerous and untrainable and a menace to society and had to be put down, I would want it done in the most painless way possible; again, I wouldn't simply abandon him to didsbury boy.

It would be one thing if God simply said that those who did not love him would not go to heaven and would simply cease to exist upon their death; that's fair. But the fact that he would want punishment and pain caused to those beings for all eternity, that's seriously sick. Personally, I believe such a perspective contradicts the notion of an all-powerful being; a vengeful, vindictive and vain god is a contradiction in terms.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

God does program man with an awareness of a higher power. That is why you won't find a culture without a religion. People will fill that void with some invention of their imagination if they don't know God.

No, religion is created to counterbalance parts of the mind in disequalibrium. The reason every culture has religion is because they need something to explain the unexplainable.

If you don't know how something works, you can just attribute the answer to religion or magic.

That is why religion is declining in most parts of the industrialized world, they simply don't need to have faith in god anymore to provide all the answers to them, they can rely on science.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

That is why religion is declining in most parts of the industrialized world, they simply don't need to have faith in god anymore to provide all the answers to them, they can rely on science.

And when science doesn't answer everthing, what then? Is that the unexplained...or just something mankind hasn't figured out yet?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Azure

And when science doesn't answer everthing, what then? Is that the unexplained...or just something mankind hasn't figured out yet?

As he said...that is why faith is "declining". Science explains something and more people jump ship. As science gets the time that was formerly attributed to religion to progress and study, we will see much more in regards to biblical fallacies and people removing the cross from their arse.

Start here...

Fantasyland

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cheese

As he said...that is why faith is "declining". Science explains something and more people jump ship. As science gets the time that was formerly attributed to religion to progress and study, we will see much more in regards to biblical fallacies and people removing the cross from their arse.

Start here...

Fantasyland

Science explains something...but that doesn't necessarily mean it will 'ever' explain everything.

Some people find comfort in the idea that there is something greater then ourselves controlling the universe. You don't have to believe that.