[PGT] Losers gonna lose!!

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I’m disappointed. Not because I expected them to win, but because I would have started to truly believe again had they won.

I’m not upset they lost, nor am I surprised. But I’m disappointed because I was so close to caring about Flames hockey again. Maybe next year.

This city deserves so much better than this…

Pretty much mirrors how I feel. Didn't expect a win given what was on the line, who they were playing and who the Flames players are. Disappointing nonetheless considering the lack of talent on the Hawks team (what does that say about us?), no Kane and on an 8 game losing streak on the road. Ripe for a Flames win loss...

[Infinit47]

Kadri checking out is pretty gross to see as a fan, but on the whole this year he wasn't terrible, and definitely isn't the reason we are missing the playoffs.

Huberdeau has had the effort, but the results are completely lacking, it's shocking this player out up 115 points last year.

Markstrom is hands down the culprit in missing the playoffs, and by extension Sutter who overplayed him even at the points where Vladar was playing better.

Starting Markstrom yesterday because "he earned it" shows that Sutter is out of touch and not making the best decisions to win games.

Sutter rolled 4 lines in this game and should have shortened his bench and stacked lines to try and generate more offense.

Maybe we lose to bottom feeders so often because Sutter won't make adjustments to our game plan to exploit their weaknesses.

Sutter sees one way to play. Regardless of the type of players on his team, the goaltending he is getting, the time of year, the time of the game or who the opponent is. You keep banging your head against that brick wall or else.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Kadri checking out is pretty gross to see as a fan, but on the whole this year he wasn't terrible, and definitely isn't the reason we are missing the playoffs.

Huberdeau has had the effort, but the results are completely lacking, it's shocking this player out up 115 points last year.

Markstrom is hands down the culprit in missing the playoffs, and by extension Sutter who overplayed him even at the points where Vladar was playing better.

Starting Markstrom yesterday because "he earned it" shows that Sutter is out of touch and not making the best decisions to win games.

Sutter rolled 4 lines in this game and should have shortened his bench and stacked lines to try and generate more offense.

Maybe we lose to bottom feeders so often because Sutter won't make adjustments to our game plan to exploit their weaknesses.

Sutter sees one way to play. Regardless of the type of players on his team, the goaltending he is getting, the time of year, the time of the game or who the opponent is. You keep banging your head against that brick wall or else.

Markstrom's save percentage is pretty flat month to month whether he had 7 or 14 starts.

Vladar hasn't been good either, including in relief against the Ducks.

Not sure there's a lot of easy goalie decisions for a coach when neither guy is playing well for most of the season.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Kadri checking out is pretty gross to see as a fan, but on the whole this year he wasn't terrible, and definitely isn't the reason we are missing the playoffs.

.

Kadri actually started the year very well, I think people forget. The first half or so but then things went off the rails for some reason.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Markstrom's save percentage is pretty flat month to month whether he had 7 or 14 starts.

Vladar hasn't been good either, including in relief against the Ducks.

Not sure there's a lot of easy goalie decisions for a coach when neither guy is playing well for most of the season.

Other than, you know, maybe giving a goalie who is the #1 goalie in the 2nd best hockey league in the world a shot?

Oh, and he plays out of Calgary too?

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Markstrom's save percentage is pretty flat month to month whether he had 7 or 14 starts.

Vladar hasn't been good either, including in relief against the Ducks.

Not sure there's a lot of easy goalie decisions for a coach when neither guy is playing well for most of the season.

Vladar gets wins though. And is statistically better than Markstrom, albeit very slightly, against harder competition over the year.

The fact the Markstrom is the automatic choice for Sutter shows how biased he is in player assessment.

Vladar came in cold and won the Ducks game. How is that not deserving of getting the next start?

I can see why some players would hate playing for Sutter, and it's not because he's a hardass. It's because he has a complete double standard for certain players and if you've ever had a boss who plays favourites you would know how toxic that is.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Kadri's body language on the ice has been screaming 'i'm done' for a while. The turnovers this game and in prior games speak for themselves. There was also a play in the Anaheim game (? or perhaps prior game) where he turned it over, skated back alongside our dmen and just coasted backwards... erect, stick just hanging from one hand, barely an eye on the play.

I'm not sure if he needs a summer to reset or what, but the sheer disinterest is worrisome.

[D as in David]

Reading this thread, I've learned that it isn't players who play the game or coaches who coach the team or even management who build the roster. It's us fans. And after this season I think we need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves "why did we #### the bed so badly?". I'm so disappointed in you guys (minus the one real fan here, of course) and myself.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Vladar gets wins though. And is statistically better than Markstrom, albeit very slightly, against harder competition over the year.

The fact the Markstrom is the automatic choice for Sutter shows how biased he is in player assessment.

Vladar came in cold and won the Ducks game. How is that not deserving of getting the next start?

I can see why some players would hate playing for Sutter, and it's not because he's a hardass. It's because he has a complete double standard for certain players and if you've ever had a boss who plays favourites you would know how toxic that is.

I think when you have two goalies, and both are disappointing it's logical to give the veteran with a better resume and a Vezina runner up the longer rope to turn it around.

Without either guy going they are (were) sunk.

Turning around Markstrom saves your season.

[Toonage]

Kadri has likely quit on Sutter and by proxy, the team.

Ordinarily this would probably make him pretty disliked in his own locker room, but given the reports of a number of players unhappy who knows.

I'm actually angrier this morning than I was last night about Sutter saying they were too slow against Chicago earlier in the year but he still sat his fastest players.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Markstrom's save percentage is pretty flat month to month whether he had 7 or 14 starts.

Vladar hasn't been good either, including in relief against the Ducks.

Not sure there's a lot of easy goalie decisions for a coach when neither guy is playing well for most of the season.

Found the comment during the game (Fan960) Pete said he thought Mackstrom was tired.

Markstrom has played a bunch of games, in the last while,

he might be exhausted, they may have no choice but start Vladar tonight.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Reading this thread, I've learned that it isn't players who play the game or coaches who coach the team or even management who build the roster. It's us fans. And after this season I think we need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves "why did we #### the bed so badly?". I'm so disappointed in you guys (minus the one real fan here, of course) and myself.

Can I see a list of who's actually said any of that?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Can I see a list of who's actually said any of that?

I thought it was pretty clear that it was a list of one poster.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I thought it was pretty clear that it was a list of one poster.

I missed the sarcasm target. Thought you were heading down the same path as the guy I guess you're quoting.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think when you have two goalies, and both are disappointing it's logical to give the veteran with a better resume and a Vezina runner up the longer rope to turn it around.

Without either guy going they are (were) sunk.

Turning around Markstrom saves your season.

I don't think Sutter ever gave Vladar a solid chance to get going. And even then Vladar's results (which are what matters) are hands down better than Markstrom's. Sutter rode Markstrom to an embarrassing elimination against the Oilers, and rode him all year, and rode him the game after he got pulled and his replacement won.

My point is we will never know how the season would have turned out if Sutter played Vladar more, and showed any confidence in him.

Could it be worse than barely missing the playoffs though?

[topfiverecords]

Well no wonder we lost, we were playing the Ducks too apparently. Can't win when you're playing two teams.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I don't think Sutter ever gave Vladar a solid chance to get going. And even then Vladar's results (which are what matters) are hands down better than Markstrom's. Sutter rode Markstrom to an embarrassing elimination against the Oilers, and rode him all year, and rode him the game after he got pulled and his replacement won.

My point is we will never know how the season would have turned out if Sutter played Vladar more, and showed any confidence in him.

Could it be worse than barely missing the playoffs though?

Midway through the year, Vladar's numbers were demonstrably better than Markstrom's. But because Vladar wasn't constitently putting up a 2.00 and 0.910 the decision was to ride Markstrom to try and get him going.

Not saying Vladar was a guarantee to play well with a higher workload, but they gambled with the goalie who was struggling worse and it hasn't worked.

Vladar putting up a 2.75 and a 0.900 probably gets you into the playoffs.

[Sec214]

Priority number one should be getting Kadri out of this organization. He quit on his teammates and it’s very clear he’s okay with it.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Kadri actually started the year very well, I think people forget. The first half or so but then things went off the rails for some reason.

If he is mad at the coach he shouldn’t be. Sutter showed faith after the turnovers and kept playing him. Many would have just benched him.

[Harry Lime]

The only problem I've ever had with Sutter is the grinding, dump and chase element to his gameplan. He once said "give me 12 players like Ronnie Stern, and I'll win the cup" or something to that effect.

The problem with that style of play is that you end up getting the absolute best out of the bottom six, but you hamstring the top six.

I think that is what we are seeing, and the frustration from the top players. Totally predictable. Last year, you saw gadreau and Tkachuk play outside of the system, and what the result was. I think that Sutter feels like Kadri and hubey have not earned the right to play outside of the system, and at this rate they never will.