[PGT] Flames 0 - Wild 3

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd say Dube, Backlund, Coleman and even Mangiapane (play driving, equal on ice goal production) and Lewis up front.

I think Hanifin, Andersson, Tanev, Weegar and Zadorov on the blueline have all been good ... maybe not 100% consistent good, but good.

Not sure about Weegar but yes to everyone else.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Not sure about Weegar but yes to everyone else.

Weegar is a top 10 defenseman in most defensive metrics.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The idea that Mangiapane hasn't been good is way over cooked.

His on ice stuff is pretty much equal to last season if not a bit better (expected and actual).

His individual shooting percentage is down but with the other metrics it's hard to argue that he's contributing to a productive line.

Maybe but the Flames need offense from him when they need it. Playing well without scoring is not good enough for him. For Lewis maybe

But I agree, Mangi is what he is now. He is not a 35 goal scorer or whatever

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Maybe but the Flames need offense from him when they need it. Playing well without scoring is not good enough for him. For Lewis maybe

But I agree, Mangi is what he is now. He is not a 35 goal scorer or whatever

If a player plays really well, gets a big contract and stop playing well it's an issue.

If a player continues to play well but doesn't have the same puck luck (which is pretty easy to establish) it just happens.

He's a pretty likely bounce back candidate for 30 goals in my mind.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'd say Dube, Backlund, Coleman and even Mangiapane (play driving, equal on ice goal production) and Lewis up front.

I think Hanifin, Andersson, Tanev, Weegar and Zadorov on the blueline have all been good ... maybe not 100% consistent good, but good.

Dube seems to be a natural progression of a young player improving. Backlund I would agree with is having his most consistent season from start to finish but is that coaching or him fitting like a glove in role he was always best suited for? Coleman has looked better.

I him Mangiapane has taken a massive step back but with him it's hard because I don't think he was ever going to be a 35 goal player again and wished we traded him.

Tanev has always been steady. Andersson has struggled. Weegars offensive numbers have taken a complete nose dive. Hanifin has been consistent and up until the last few seems Zadorov has been as well.

So who is he getting the extra 10% out of that was talked about all offseason?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If a player plays really well, gets a big contract and stop playing well it's an issue.

If a player continues to play well but doesn't have the same puck luck (which is pretty easy to establish) it just happens.

He's a pretty likely bounce back candidate for 30 goals in my mind.

I disagree I don’t think he is a reliable scorer.

That doesn’t mean he can’t get 30 again but expect him to score again like the beginning of last year is misplaced

[Strange Brew]

At least Mangiapane is still in the middle of the action, really he is the least of my worries as a Flames fan.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If Lindholm keeps his pace he’ll land around 10 points behind his second best season and over 10 points ahead of his third. PTS/60 He’s 0.2 off the pace of his second best season. That’s without a Gaudreau, Tkachuk, or even prime-level Monahan to play with.

Saying Lindholm or even Mangiapane are “putrid” just means your expectations are out of touch with reality.

Backlund, Andersson, Dube, Toffoli, are set to meet or exceed their career best.

Lindholm, Coleman are well above their career average.

Hanifin, Kadri, Tanev are just above his career average. Mangiapane is right in-line with his career average.

Who is left of the top 9 and top 4 that are supposedly underperforming? Huberdeau and Weegar… two players out of 13. I’m bad at math but I don’t think that’s a majority. Or everyone is just supposed to be the best ever?

Agreed for the most part, but... when we're talking about multi-year NHL vets in their mid 20s, they're supposed to be playing well above their career averages. If they aren't, it usually means their progression has fallen well short of expectation.

Case in point, Mangiapane; he has fallen off significantly from last year. That's a disappointment considering he's 26.

By contrast, Dube, 24, continues to progress nicely.

In the case of Kadri, he's 32, and it's unfortunatley looking like he's regressed back to his career norms after a one-year anomaly.

Lindholm, 28, hasn't been a disappointment this year, but he hasn't exactly been wowing anyone either. He has been held pointless in the last 5 games.

Weegar has been very good, exactly as advertised, despite the low point totals. SuperMatt covered it well in another thread.

Tanev may be starting to show his age and the effects of his injury history.

Hanifin is good but inconsistent.

Kylington is still nowhere to be found.

Huberdeau looks nothing like the player he was in Florida. This system doesn't work for his play style. His defensive metrics look good, but he can't seem to generate any offense in this system. That's a problem considering his salary and what he was brought here to do.

Up until the last couple games, the goaltending has been mostly putrid. The PP also sucks (at times looking like the worst PP I've seen in any pro hockey league, ever).

Just a sad, unfortunate season and situation all around. Hopefully next year brings better goaltending, a revitalized Huberdeau, and a team that plays to its potential...

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

At least Mangiapane is still in the middle of the action, really he is the least of my worries as a Flames fan.

Yes, he works his butt off. Unfortunately, the puck hasn't been going in for him. Same thing that's happening to other Flames.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Plenty of better coaches than sutter.

Plenty?


Outside of coach Q who probably isn't even available, that's an extremely hard argument to make. Sutter with his success in LA and even last year with this team. It's not his fault Markstom and Huberdeau have been putrid and some guys apparently have hurt feelings or some other ridiculous reason.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Teroy

So they get paid big bucks to make them feel good. I thought it was for performance. Plus, I haven't heard anything that says they hate Sutter.

Churning out coaches is easy, Darryl ,ay be tough but many used to complain that our group was mentally weak We need Huberdeau to step up and lead the group. If iggy wasn't scoring he would spark the team with a fight and some channeled emotion. Huberdeau has only played for one team in which he wasnt asked to be the leader. He may not have a whole lot of experience dragging a group.into the trenches. Gaudreau used to drag the whole team into winning games and other players followed his lead. Huberdeau just needs to get emotional and light a fire under the team.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Plenty?


Outside of coach Q who probably isn't even available, that's an extremely hard argument to make. Sutter with his success in LA and even last year with this team. It's not his fault Markstom and Huberdeau have been putrid and some guys apparently have hurt feelings or some other ridiculous reason.

Who has hurt feelings?

Would you like going into work when your manager was constantly negative and calling you a bum after you had your most productive season? Does that sound like something you would like to wake up to every day and go into?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Who has hurt feelings?

Would you like going into work when your manager was constantly negative and calling you a bum after you had your most productive season? Does that sound like something you would like to wake up to every day and go into?

I think you are beating this drum too hard, Lots of fan know Sutters is a hard coach to play for, we remember him from his is former days as Flames coach. I think if certain players stop up and start winning those frowns would turn to smiles on a dime.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Who has hurt feelings?

Would you like going into work when your manager was constantly negative and calling you a bum after you had your most productive season? Does that sound like something you would like to wake up to every day and go into?

Several people have said that Sutter is too tough on these guys or that they a guy like Huberdeau should get more minutes (which he doesn't deserve) or that there is a rift between the players and the coach. To me this is just really bad sign if true, Sutter has made it work elsewhere and would be welcomed by many teams. Boudreau just said he has the best feel for the game out of all coaches. He has the track record of making it work.


I don't think comparing a regular job that pays 100k or whatever per year is a good comparison. These guys get paid in the millions to play something that they obviously love, that comes with certain expectations. Plus it's not like hard coaches are new to this sport.

[Kasi]

Except that his team in LA that he had won two cups with locked him out. Winning is not a panacea for how he treats people. It just delays the inevitable. If winning did solve it he wouldn’t have been fired in LA.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Except that his team in LA that he had won two cups with locked him out. Winning is not a panacea for how he treats people. It just delays the inevitable. If winning did solve it he wouldn’t have been fired in LA.

Something that really worried me when Sutter was extended here. He's a "win right now, win like this" kind of coach, and it wears thin fast.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Something that really worried me when Sutter was extended here. He's a "win right now, win like this" kind of coach, and it wears thin fast.

And with that type of attitude he has to win now or it’s unbearable. I’ve been in situations like that at work because although things were not sustainable well you were getting a big bonus and getting accolades. However when things turned for the downwards and we didn’t make enough money and the bonuses dropped to normal you saw people leave in droves. This team is not winning this year and you can see how things are frayed because of it.

[Burning Beard]

Let's bring back a "players" coach like Gully or Ward. They need more beach ball soccer at practice and tunes.

[Kasi]

Or you know hire a younger coach that is you know in touch with their players and doesn’t have to play mind games. No one knew about Cooper or Bednar when they were hired. You don’t have to be a players coach to actually have reasonable relationships with your team. I have no idea if Mitch Love can be that person but I’d give him a shot. He’s done really well for the Wranglers.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Who has hurt feelings?

Would you like going into work when your manager was constantly negative and calling you a bum after you had your most productive season? Does that sound like something you would like to wake up to every day and go into?

Well if I produced at 30 percent of what I'm paid yeah that would be warranted.