Huberdeau and Weegar Signing Discussion Thread

[MrMike]

Are they signed yet?

[Electricprez]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Are they signed yet?

If Huberdeau signs, it's likely to be after he spends time in the city in August.

For my part, I don't think there's anything in place to start the season. Will want to see how he feels about the group, the city, the coach.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Did Johnny Hockey pick his number yet? Need a Hubey jersey ASAP!

His name is now Johnny Family

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Unless you're going to try to negotiate their full deals it's kinda pointless in this case. As others have mentioned, you are just giving Huberdeau a grenade to blow up the deal if he simply doesn't want to leave (see Kadri, albeit a different kind of grenade). And FLA doesn't want to risk harming their relationship with the player if the deal doesn't actually go through.

If the pending FA is the most important player in the deal, then of course you want more certainty.

Gotcha. So Calgary should be all concerned about Florida's needs and maintaining the relationship with their players rather than worrying about their own situation and protecting their own interests. Based on the information from Walsh the damage was done because the deal was not disclosed to the player prior to the deal being completed. The Flames should be worrying about getting their due diligence completed and let Florida worry about theirs.

It is somewhat concerning that someone in the Flames organization did not reach out to the players or their representatives to test the waters before making the deal. Certainly lends support to this is Treliving's show and Edwards is not involved in these operational functions, because Edwards would serve you your nuts on a platter if you made a deal like this without completing your due diligence.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Gotcha. So Calgary should be all concerned about Florida's needs and maintaining the relationship with their players rather than worrying about their own situation and protecting their own interests. Based on the information from Walsh the damage was done because the deal was not disclosed to the player prior to the deal being completed. The Flames should be worrying about getting their due diligence completed and let Florida worry about theirs.

It is somewhat concerning that someone in the Flames organization did not reach out to the players or their representatives to test the waters before making the deal. Certainly lends support to this is Treliving's show and Edwards is not involved in these operational functions, because Edwards would serve you your nuts on a platter if you made a deal like this without completing your due diligence.

Sorry, you think the Flames should have been negotiating with these players prior to the trade? You realize they can't, that's tampering. And Florida (and any other suitor) would never give that permission to chat with them prior to a deal - because what happens with those players if the Flames pick a different trade partner deal.

There was 0 option for the Flames to pre negotiate with a player, unless they happened to be dealing with another RFA asset on the other side who also said they wanted out.

Your assertation that they even could have talked to these players is disconnected from the reality of the situation.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Gotcha. So Calgary should be all concerned about Florida's needs and maintaining the relationship with their players rather than worrying about their own situation and protecting their own interests. Based on the information from Walsh the damage was done because the deal was not disclosed to the player prior to the deal being completed. The Flames should be worrying about getting their due diligence completed and let Florida worry about theirs.

It is somewhat concerning that someone in the Flames organization did not reach out to the players or their representatives to test the waters before making the deal. Certainly lends support to this is Treliving's show and Edwards is not involved in these operational functions, because Edwards would serve you your nuts on a platter if you made a deal like this without completing your due diligence.

I think you are over thinking this one. If it is the best deal on the table you take it and then get the details sorted. What's the upside of feeling out Huberdeau and Weegar through their agents when this was not on their radar at all. Does Treliving take a crappier return if they say no? Do you prefer Tarasenko and Scandella?

At the end of the day Flames got two valuable UFAs for one valuable UFA. I think there's zero chance they both get walked to UFA if they don't sign though. Tkachuk wanted out and he was gone on five days.

[Nelson]

I don’t think the team can wait until the season begins. If they can’t re-sign Huberdeau and/or Weegar, they need to trade Huberdeau and/or Weegar for good, long-term asset(s) well before the season begins.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Gotcha. So Calgary should be all concerned about Florida's needs and maintaining the relationship with their players rather than worrying about their own situation and protecting their own interests. Based on the information from Walsh the damage was done because the deal was not disclosed to the player prior to the deal being completed. The Flames should be worrying about getting their due diligence completed and let Florida worry about theirs.

It is somewhat concerning that someone in the Flames organization did not reach out to the players or their representatives to test the waters before making the deal. Certainly lends support to this is Treliving's show and Edwards is not involved in these operational functions, because Edwards would serve you your nuts on a platter if you made a deal like this without completing your due diligence.

I think I'll take Edwards history of being involved in almost everything both in oil and gas and with his hockey team over your jump to conclusions.

If the Flames saw this as an asset grab, and Florida either didn't grant permission to talk to the player's agents or you feared slowing down the deal that you wanted done, you don't hold up a deal you think you're going to win if you're happy with either result (players both sign, players don't sign but are flipped again)

[iggy_oi]

If I had to guess I’d say treliving is very busy trying to get their’s and mangiapane’s contracts negotiated.

I’ve said it before that I think the fact that Huberdeau and weegar are coming off career years but going to a new team gives the flames some decent leverage given it’s a big gamble for both of them to assume they will match their production from last year in a new system. I think they will both do very well but the risk of injury is also a big factor, better to sign when you’re healthy than when you’re coming off a knee injury or concussion.

Weegar seems pretty stoked to play here so I imagine his will get done first but I think Huberdeau is just as likely to sign here with a team that wants to win. If the flames can get them both signed they are in really good shape going forward and with lots of contracts coming off the books over the next 2 seasons we will be able to keep players like lindholm when their deals are up and go after some free agents. So long as we can develop a few prospects to be everyday nhlers that can fill out the lineup there’s no reason to believe we can’t continue to be competitive if sutter sticks around after next season.

I can’t believe people are still going out of their way to find something wrong with this trade, it was nothing short of a coup given our bargaining position. Getting a player who was tied for second overall in scoring in exchange for a player that a team couldn’t possibly keep isn’t something that happens very often.

[robertsfanatic]

training camps start in September and then they have another month or so to the regular season start....so they have plenty of time to sort this out.

also, they need to get the RFA's signed too.

[Erick Estrada]

I can't fault any Flames fans for being antsy about getting the contracts done given how the last month just played out. It just wasn't fun and hopefully we don't have to go through that again for a while.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Sorry, you think the Flames should have been negotiating with these players prior to the trade? You realize they can't, that's tampering.

Not if Florida grants them permission to speak to the players, which Calgary should have demanded so they could complete their due diligence. Calgary granted Florida access to Tkachuk so they could do their due diligence and give a bottom-line number and contract details for the sign and trade. Or do you think the Flames negotiated the terms of the Tkachuk deal and Florida just accepted whatever was in that deal?

And Florida (and any other suitor) would never give that permission to chat with them prior to a deal - because what happens with those players if the Flames pick a different trade partner deal.

Not accurate at all. Teams do this all the time especially when there are conditions attached to the player or the player is a big-ticket item. Players have a lot of control where they can play these days, so the smart teams are making sure they are not trading for someone else's problem. You think for a second that Buffalo wasn't 100% certain that both the players they were acquiring in the Eichel trade were not on board with Buffalo? They had that verified and sewn up before that deal was agreed to.

There was 0 option for the Flames to pre negotiate with a player, unless they happened to be dealing with another RFA asset on the other side who also said they wanted out.

Why would that be? If I'm trading for a player who has a year left on his contract, and they are in the negotiating window (which both players are), so long as I have permission from the team holding that contract, I can ask the player whatever I want and negotiate just as the team who owns their rights. This is how teams can trade for a player then have a contract done almost immediately. They've talked and have agreed to terms prior to execution of the trade. Walsh was pissed with Florida because the conversation never took place.

Your assertation that they even could have talked to these players is disconnected from the reality of the situation.

The reality of the situation is the Flames didn't ask. Huberdeau's agent disclosed that. They could have asked and been given permission, but that never happened. It's disturbing that you seem to believe there is this huge cone of silence where teams can't get permission to have conversations with players when they are on the table in a trade, or there are not other ways to get information on whether a player would be open to playing for your team.
Agents are back channels to players and can facilitate communication without tampering. How the hell do you think trades get worked out, especially those where NTC and NMC are involved? Teams talk to players through sanctioned means (permissions) or back channels (agents). You should be more concerned that these conversations didn't take place than worrying about how they do.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I can't fault any Flames fans for being antsy about getting the contracts done given how the last month just played out. It just wasn't fun and hopefully we don't have to go through that again for a while.

My concern is that the Flames enter the season without Huberdeau and/or Weegar extended, they are a playoff team or borderline playoff team, they do not trade Huberdeau and/or Weegar at the deadline, and they lose Huberdeau and/or Weegar for nothing. I just want to see the Flames avoid that by making an off-season deadline to re-sign them. The Flames need to get long-term assets for Tkachuk.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think I'll take Edwards history of being involved in almost everything both in oil and gas and with his hockey team over your jump to conclusions.



If the Flames saw this as an asset grab, and Florida either didn't grant permission to talk to the player's agents or you feared slowing down the deal that you wanted done, you don't hold up a deal you think you're going to win if you're happy with either result (players both sign, players don't sign but are flipped again)

I think the return you can get for Tkachuk is different if you talk to the player and agent before hand. We were able to get this return because both Huberdeau and Weegar are pending UFAs. One or both of them having long term contracts is much more valuable, so we wouldn't be able to get the return we got if that was the case. At this point we are playing with house money (for the next 9 months or so).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Not if Florida grants them permission to speak to the players, which Calgary should have demanded so they could complete their due diligence. Calgary granted Florida access to Tkachuk so they could do their due diligence and give a bottom-line number and contract details for the sign and trade. Or do you think the Flames negotiated the terms of the Tkachuk deal and Florida just accepted whatever was in that deal?



Not accurate at all. Teams do this all the time especially when there are conditions attached to the player or the player is a big-ticket item. Players have a lot of control where they can play these days, so the smart teams are making sure they are not trading for someone else's problem. You think for a second that Buffalo wasn't 100% certain that both the players they were acquiring in the Eichel trade were not on board with Buffalo? They had that verified and sewn up before that deal was agreed to.



Why would that be? If I'm trading for a player who has a year left on his contract, and they are in the negotiating window (which both players are), so long as I have permission from the team holding that contract, I can ask the player whatever I want and negotiate just as the team who owns their rights. This is how teams can trade for a player then have a contract done almost immediately. They've talked and have agreed to terms prior to execution of the trade. Walsh was pissed with Florida because the conversation never took place.



The reality of the situation is the Flames didn't ask. Huberdeau's agent disclosed that. They could have asked and been given permission, but that never happened. It's disturbing that you seem to believe there is this huge cone of silence where teams can't get permission to have conversations with players when they are on the table in a trade, or there are not other ways to get information on whether a player would be open to playing for your team.
Agents are back channels to players and can facilitate communication without tampering. How the hell do you think trades get worked out, especially those where NTC and NMC are involved? Teams talk to players through sanctioned means (permissions) or back channels (agents). You should be more concerned that these conversations didn't take place than worrying about how they do.

LOL. Florida offers a package that's far and away the best possible - beyond anyone's wildest dreams, and Calgary is going to make demands about speaking to them, as opposed to grabbing the deal and running away before Florida can change its mind?

As for back channels - it's pretty clear that this soft tampering is greatly exaggerated. There was zero communication between Gaudreau and any other team prior to UFA - that's very clear. Doesn't appear that there was between Florida and Tkachuk. So either all these teams are incompetent or it doesn't happen like people here assume.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I can’t believe people are still going out of their way to find something wrong with this trade, it was nothing short of a coup given our bargaining position.

I can believe it. And any possible creeping disbelief is quickly replaced by fascination over the imaginative reasons people come up with to criticize it.

It's like prodding a conspiracy theorist to tell you more about why the Earth is flat. You know it's bull####, but it's fun learning how their mind works.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Doesn't appear that there was between Florida and Tkachuk.

I agree with the rest of what you said but I think Florida & Tkachuk were in talks before the trade was announced, even if you only look at the extension being announced as in place the same time they announced the trade.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Icon

I agree with the rest of what you said but I think Florida & Tkachuk were in talks before the trade was announced, even if you only look at the extension being announced as in place the same time they announced the trade.

Well, it was a sign and trade, so a little different. So they essentially made an offer through Calgary. Which Tkachuk accepted.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I’ve said it before that I think the fact that Huberdeau and weegar are coming off career years but going to a new team gives the flames some decent leverage given it’s a big gamble for both of them to assume they will match their production from last year in a new system. I think they will both do very well but the risk of injury is also a big factor, better to sign when you’re healthy than when you’re coming off a knee injury or concussion.

.

The players have decent leverage as well, as Treliving is under pressure to get them signed.

Weegar in particular should get more PP time to increase his stats.

[Hack&Lube]

I think that if you get this deal on the table as Tre, you get the paperwork signed asap because Florida could change their mind and withdraw the offer.

The return was too good for someone who didn't want to be here anymore and the goal was just to get these assets finalized, then dealt with later.

One reason Florida overpaid (up for debate of course) was their UFA status and unknown plans and that may have been the leverage Tre needed to get Weeger thrown in as well. I would bet Florida first offered only Huberdeau + a 1st.