That's what I used, but didn't put in the one minor break, as I felt that is a break pretty well everyone gets. That would account for the extra few hours difference in our calculations.
OK, but they say the days at the bottom, so there is no need to run your own calculations that miss days. But I suspect your hours worked for non-teachers number is going to be off as well, as you subtracted vacation but not stats, which are 11 days a year.
Not trying to be confrontational, just looking at the numbers.
Pretty much comparable to public sector, except they worked less hours for it.
Very unlucky then. Anecdotally, people in the private sector were getting double digit raises and 25% bonuses in 2012-2014. I empathize with your frustration that you were not able to share in the boom times (much like public sector workers), but have to deal with the bust times with your paycut and wage freeze.
Ah the teacher debate. If you look at what daycare costs, you’re getting a #### of a deal to pay a teacher to monitor 30plus kids. Not to mention, being responsible for their entire education. If you have an issue with what teachers make, I automatically feel like your mediocre at your job, pissed off at anyone who makes more than you and probably read the Calgary Sun.
As for not having a raise in 4 or 5 years...what industries are you guys in? If I’m not getting a cost of living increase yearly, it’s effectively a pay cut. And if your opinion is because you couldn’t justify getting a raise from your boss that no one else should, I think you’re whack.
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No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
I dont want to get into this all over again, but I'll address this.
They're the highest paid Teachers in the Country, some might even argue an even broader scale.
So why do they need an increase to accommodate for cost of living if their wages are already so high?
Its a correction. Its the next best thing to *GASP* ....pay cuts.
For a group that largely dont subscribe to the Economic Principle of Constant Growth I find the expectation of constant pay increases rather amusing.
Are they the highest paid in the country? I haven't seen that stat, but if you can point me to the numbers that would be great. I'm sure they are up there, but, again, Alberta is one of the most expensive places in Canada to live.
For me, when I think about what someone should make, all things being equal the formula is a combination of years experience, job performance, and level of education. To be a teacher, you need at a minimum a 4 year bachleors degree. Many teachers have that plus a two year masters degree. And that just gets them in the door at the bottom of the salary grid (~$70k IIRC).
So, what is the comparable wage? You are paying for a professional that has 4-6 years of university education at a minimum. They only top out on the grid at slightly over $100K after many, many years of service and experience.
It's not like $100k is some massive, exorbitant, sunshine list salary. In Alberta, it is a reasonable salary for a professional, given our cost of living. It comes with perks, sure. But it has trade offs as well.
This is an interesting page for looking at pay by educational level too:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
Very unlucky then. Anecdotally, people in the private sector were getting double digit raises and 25% bonuses in 2012-2014. I empathize with your frustration that you were not able to share in the boom times (much like public sector workers), but have to deal with the bust times with your paycut and wage freeze.
Show me a private sector equivalent teacher getting this.
Show me a private sector equivalent teacher getting this.
Sorry Ironhorse and I were having a side conversation about private sector and public sector compensation as an aggregate (at least that's what I think).
I was not talking about teachers, but just the private sector in general. Like O&G or finance.
In order to make your math work, you're artificially limiting non-teachers to 40 hours per week, while claiming lunch as work for teachers, pretending they don't usually have shorter schedules on Fridays, and skipping over a whole lot of non-teaching days. Nice try.
Hardly.
I'm comparing the teacher I know (i.e. the boss), and her schedule. Since it is the only direct experience with the situation that I have. And probably more direct experience than most have here.
She works the hours I stated. And due to the lack of funding and supports, does not get her CBA mandated breaks. And since when are non-teaching days not considered work?
But, again, the point is being missed. If, even after all that, the difference is somewhere between 1 and 2 weeks extra time off per year, before overtime is even considered, I'd say tax payers are getting one hell of a deal for a professional with 2 university degrees.
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Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
OK, but they say the days at the bottom, so there is no need to run your own calculations that miss days. But I suspect your hours worked for non-teachers number is going to be off as well, as you subtracted vacation but not stats, which are 11 days a year.
Not trying to be confrontational, just looking at the numbers.
All good, we used the same source, just slightly different end point. But I think we can agree on aggregate that the difference is close to ~2 weeks less work per year (for my direct example; number a little higher, obviously, if you take a 40 hour week).
Didn't count stat holidays on either side, so it should be a wash.
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Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
Single parenting the last 1.5 months of report card season is getting tiring. So you all get to feel my wrath. Or something.
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Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
Sorry Ironhorse and I were having a side conversation about private sector and public sector compensation as an aggregate (at least that's what I think).
I was not talking about teachers, but just the private sector in general. Like O&G or finance.
Ok I guess. Its a completely disingenuous conversation though.
haha, I meant it's about that time because we're right at the "2 months of vacation" to set people off!
Ahh yes. Now parents have to scramble to find day care, and, perhaps, educate their kids without assistance for two months.
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Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
We haven't had a good ol' fashioned teachers work "really" hard throw down for a little bit, and I'm itching for some debate. Especially with report card season in full swing, massively growing class sizes and reduced classroom supports.
Also, what the hell is with all these teacher salary increases? It is truly getting out of control. One increase of *gasp* 2% in the last seven years....
Alberta CPI moved from 127.1 (2012) to 140.6 (2018). An aggregate increase of 10.62% in the cost of living in the province over the same time frame.
So, to recap:
1. Class sizes are growing.
2. Inflation continues unabated.
3. Teacher salaries lag behind even basic adjustment for cost of living.
I'm curious what argument can be made with a straight face that Alberta teachers don't deserve a massive pay raise?
The Alberta Advantage that enabled us to have low taxes and a highly paid public and private sector was due to us being able to exploit the commodity in the ground. Unfortunately this is no longer the case and means higher taxes and lower wages in both the public and private sector.
The question that should be asked with discussing the wage of any job public or private sector is — Is the rate of turnover acceptable and if an employee leaves can I replace them with a competent employee. If the answer to both is yes wages can be lowered.
Ahh yes. Now parents have to scramble to find day care, and, perhaps, educate their kids without assistance for two months.
I'm just thinking of the teachers though. I know my son is a perfect angel, so I can only hope that his teacher and the administration find a way to manage their summer without dealing with his misbehaviour enjoying his company!
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The Alberta Advantage that enabled us to have low taxes and a highly paid private sector was due to us being able to exploit the commodity in the ground. Unfortunately this means higher taxes and lower wages in both the public and private sector.
The question that should be asked with discussing the wage of any job public or private sector is — Is the rate of turnover acceptable and if an employee leaves can I replace them with a competent employee. If the answer to both is yes wages can be lowered.
Except the prices for consumer goods in our wondrous land of plenty haven't changed much at all. If anything, they've become more expensive with the advent of the carbon tax over the last few years. Couple that with consistent population growth, and you have a jurisdiction that requires additional teaching resources at prices consistent with the cost of living in said jurisdiction.
I'd be fascinated to see the hilarity that would ensue by leaving the reins of the education system to the hands of new grads, simply because they can technically replace a more senior teacher.
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Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
Ahh yes. Now parents have to scramble to find day care, and, perhaps, educate their kids without assistance for two months.
Well, yeah, they have to find childcare since no other job gives you two months off in July and August (best two months of the year in our country). So while I'm at work, I do have to find something to keep my kids occupied. The "cool guy" emoji is a fataing insult in this context.
And you're on crack if you think every other private sector guy out there is getting gobs of vacation. The differential is way beyond how you're painting it.
I worked for one of Canada's 100 Best Employers out of university for five years. Two weeks off in four of those five years and this was in the 2000s. So in five years of employment at a good job as a degreed graduate, I - along with thousands of other Calgarians - had 8 weeks off. A teacher during that exact same time period with the exact same education would have had 55 weeks off. Why 8 weeks off and not 10? You have to work your first full 12 months before you are eligible for vacation.
I'm not some outlier, either. That is how vacation works to this day. You get two weeks off every year for your first five years after your first year. That's all the law mandates and all many jobs provide.
So while I'm at work, I do have to find something to keep my kids occupied. The "cool guy" emoji is a fataing insult in this context.
Think of it as supporting local businesses. With kids off in the summer it creates 1000's of temporary jobs that students and others can work in the summer. If teachers didn't get a summer break this would not happen in our economy. You can thank the teachers for directly creating jobs and providing necessary skills for the leaders of tomorrow.
Well, yeah, they have to find childcare since no other job gives you two months off in July and August (best two months of the year in our country). So while I'm at work, I do have to find something to keep my kids occupied. The "cool guy" emoji is a fataing insult in this context.
And you're on crack if you think every other private sector guy out there is getting gobs of vacation. The differential is way beyond how you're painting it.
I worked for one of Canada's 100 Best Employers out of university for five years. Two weeks off in four of those five years and this was in the 2000s. So in five years of employment at a good job as a degreed graduate, I - along with thousands of other Calgarians - had 8 weeks off. A teacher during that exact same time period with the exact same education would have had 55 weeks off. Why 8 weeks off and not 10? You have to work your first full 12 months before you are eligible for vacation.
I'm not some outlier, either. That is how vacation works to this day. You get two weeks off every year for your first five years after your first year. That's all the law mandates and all many jobs provide.
I can appreciate where you are coming from, having been in the same boat as you as a new grad. This is the first year since I started working as a professional that I get more than 3 weeks off. I still think it is fair to say that the average number of weeks of vacation on the private side is somewhere between 2 and 4, which is where I put it.
So, sure, we get less vacation.
We also, on average (notwithstanding the last few years), get paid more and get some pretty sweet perks.
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Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
Well, yeah, they have to find childcare since no other job gives you two months off in July and August (best two months of the year in our country). So while I'm at work, I do have to find something to keep my kids occupied. The "cool guy" emoji is a fataing insult in this context.
And you're on crack if you think every other private sector guy out there is getting gobs of vacation. The differential is way beyond how you're painting it.
I worked for one of Canada's 100 Best Employers out of university for five years. Two weeks off in four of those five years and this was in the 2000s. So in five years of employment at a good job as a degreed graduate, I - along with thousands of other Calgarians - had 8 weeks off. A teacher during that exact same time period with the exact same education would have had 55 weeks off. Why 8 weeks off and not 10? You have to work your first full 12 months before you are eligible for vacation.
I'm not some outlier, either. That is how vacation works to this day. You get two weeks off every year for your first five years after your first year. That's all the law mandates and all many jobs provide.
And somehow you believe this means teachers deserve less, rather than you deserving more?
Crabs in the bucket indeed.
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Quote:
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Well, yeah, they have to find childcare since no other job gives you two months off in July and August (best two months of the year in our country). So while I'm at work, I do have to find something to keep my kids occupied. The "cool guy" emoji is a fataing insult in this context.
Perhaps summer vacation is forced penance on society. It can be a reminder for parents of what dealing with their little hell spawns on a daily basis is like.
Not to rub this one in, but I do think it is kind of funny. Sorry. Should have married a teacher!
Damn wiener kids.
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Pylon on the Edmonton Oilers:
"I am actually more excited for the Oilers game tomorrow than the Flames game. I am praying for multiple jersey tosses. The Oilers are my new favourite team for all the wrong reasons. I hate them so much I love them."
