[News Roundup] Garbage bag day: Monahan had 4 surgeries!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

34 PP assists to 21 PP assists says that Wheeler is better than Gaudreau in this role...

Gee, one player gets 34 assists playing on a power play that works, and the other only gets 21 on a power play that doesn't work. It must be because of the individual player and not at all because of the team or the system.

Typical ricardodw logic.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Gee, one player gets 34 assists playing on a power play that works, and the other only gets 21 on a power play that doesn't work. It must be because of the individual player and not at all because of the team or the system.

Typical ricardodw logic.

A least I brought the conversation to comparing apples to apples rather than Gaudreau to Ehlers who have vastly different roles on the PP.

I see that you didn't care to comment on the quality of analysis that GioforPM made.. You might notice that I just commented on the things that GioPM said... not the possible biasedness in his opinion or the general quality of his posts.

In defense of my post the very next sentence describes a major difference in the PP that makes Wheeler better than Gaudreau. When Wheeler bobbles or misses a pass the bigger stronger and just as quick Jets win the puck battles at a far higher rate than the Flames. That is not strategy or coaching.

In general the Flames coaches get blamed for the PP . the Jets have a simple predictable PP. The Jets have the talent to get it done. Would the Flames coaches be so bad as to mess up the Jets PP?

[Geeoff]

Getting Patrik Laine would certainly help a lot of what ails the Flames lol

[Roof-Daddy]

If we had Ehlers instead of Bennett that would go a long ways to helping what ails the Flames, but if they would have taken Ehlers instead of Bennett at the 2014 draft people would have thought they were nuts.

So frustrating. It's so Flames that their highest draft pick in franchise history is floundering.

[Toonage]

But the if they stuck Ehlers with Versteeg & Brouwer would he be the same player?

Its hard to play the what if game like that because of so many variables.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If we had Ehlers instead of Bennett that would go a long ways to helping what ails the Flames, but if they would have taken Ehlers instead of Bennett at the 2014 draft people would have thought they were nuts.

So frustrating. It's so Flames that their highest draft pick in franchise history is floundering.

It really is. But you can go nuts running with the shoulda/coulda narrative.

Ehlers might have fizzled out here under some of the shockingly poor coaching we've had for a while and Bennett just as easily could be a superstar in Winnipeg under Maurice (the latter is a stretch but is nonetheless possible).

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Getting Patrik Laine would certainly help a lot of what ails the Flames lol

The thing is, Laine isn't what made the Jets the team they are now. It was several great drafts combined with solid coaching and development. Winnipeg would be a damn good team with or without Laine. Staying the course and following a proper building plan for several seasons gifted them with a top tier scorer that only adds to their immense depth.

Knee jerk reactions such as unnecessarily signing FAs Brouwer/Raymond, refusing to solve the long term goaltending issue and bringing in crummy PTO players every year instead of promoting from within and living with growing pains is what puts this franchise exactly where it deserves to be. Winnipeg is the anti Calgary and it sucks for everyone who cheers for this team that deserves a much better product.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If we had Ehlers instead of Bennett that would go a long ways to helping what ails the Flames, but if they would have taken Ehlers instead of Bennett at the 2014 draft people would have thought they were nuts.

So frustrating. It's so Flames that their highest draft pick in franchise history is floundering.

Ehlers was not hurt in draft year + 1 and played a full year in juniors

Scheifele was not injured draft year +1, had a great training camp and exhibition and played 7 games with the Jets and despite being better than a lot of Jet players was sent back to Barrie

His draft year +2 he was sent back to Junior after 4 NHL games where he dominated 41 pts in 21 OHL playoff games.

Draft year +3 he was finally big and strong enough to play in the NHL and has improved every year.

Bennett missed his draft year +1 AND burnt his first year ELC so he could play 2 extra games against the Ducks where he got a total of 21 minutes of ice time.

[868904]

Bennett was the consensus pick at 4, Flames would have been roasted had they not taken him there. They would have been roasted too if they traded down and passed on him.

The real sore spot is taking Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, and Brandon Hickey before local product Brayden Point. There is really no excusing that. The kid is in your backyard for crying out loud. How could you not have been tracking him since bantam?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Getting Patrik Laine would certainly help a lot of what ails the Flames lol

That is very true BUT that would mean that Hamilton would get very limited PP minutes on the 2nd unit. Totally unfair to Dougie..

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

A least I brought the conversation to comparing apples to apples rather than Gaudreau to Ehlers who have vastly different roles on the PP.

I see that you didn't care to comment on the quality of analysis that GioforPM made.. You might notice that I just commented on the things that GioPM said... not the possible biasedness in his opinion or the general quality of his posts.

In defense of my post the very next sentence describes a major difference in the PP that makes Wheeler better than Gaudreau. When Wheeler bobbles or misses a pass the bigger stronger and just as quick Jets win the puck battles at a far higher rate than the Flames. That is not strategy or coaching.

In general the Flames coaches get blamed for the PP . the Jets have a simple predictable PP. The Jets have the talent to get it done. Would the Flames coaches be so bad as to mess up the Jets PP?

That's fine except that Ehlers is in fact the puck carrier and distributor like Gaudreau. I think that the Flames do quite well at puck battles on the powerplay. Win their fair share. They also don't have that many battles however, because they are too perimeter based and opposing teams are content to let them pass around the outside.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's fine except that Ehlers is in fact the puck carrier and distributor like Gaudreau. I think that the Flames do quite well at puck battles on the powerplay. Win their fair share. They also don't have that many battles however, because they are too perimeter based and opposing teams are content to let them pass around the outside.

Hard to carry the puck in from the bench. Ehlers is never ever on the 1st PP.

The year of the Jets PP lines

Maybe the Flames think that forcing a play increases the chance for a loose puck and they avoid doing it thus keeping it safe around the outside and the Jets say make the play, maybe loose puck, likely we get it back.

Fair share kind of implies 50-50.

Your analysis of the Flames PP suggests that Gaudreau is a poor distributor..

Is that what you mean to say?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Toonage

But the if they stuck Ehlers with Versteeg & Brouwer would he be the same player?

Its hard to play the what if game like that because of so many variables.

Yeah, imagine if Ehlers had to play when Thorburn and Burmistov when he struggled and climb his way back up the depth chart...Oh wait.

Glutuzan, Versteeg, Brouwer, at what point do we get to blame Bennett for Bennett's play?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yeah, imagine if Ehlers had to play when Thorburn and Burmistov when he struggled and climb his way back up the depth chart...Oh wait.

Glutuzan, Versteeg, Brouwer, at what point do we get to blame Bennett for Bennett's play?

I was just throwing names out there to exemplify that the teams are different and you can't just plug one guy onto a different team and expect them to be the same player. The variables change.

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The thing is, Laine isn't what made the Jets the team they are now. It was several great drafts combined with solid coaching and development. Winnipeg would be a damn good team with or without Laine. Staying the course and following a proper building plan for several seasons gifted them with a top tier scorer that only adds to their immense depth.



Knee jerk reactions such as unnecessarily signing FAs Brouwer/Raymond, refusing to solve the long term goaltending issue and bringing in crummy PTO players every year instead of promoting from within and living with growing pains is what puts this franchise exactly where it deserves to be. Winnipeg is the anti Calgary and it sucks for everyone who cheers for this team that deserves a much better product.

Refusing to to solve the goalie issue is quite the stretch.
Internally, who showed they belonged during training camp? I think Jankowski was a maybe but based on most report cards, he hasn't been great

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

Refusing to to solve the goalie issue is quite the stretch.
Internally, who showed they belonged during training camp? I think Jankowski was a maybe but based on most report cards, he hasn't been great

The best young players were Jankowski, Dube and Valimaki imo. Jankowski was promised a spot and brought in asap. The others were properly returned to junior.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The best young players were Jankowski, Dube and Valimaki imo. Jankowski was promised a spot and brought in asap. The others were properly returned to junior.

I agree and I think Dube cracks the line-up next fall.

I think Valimaki has a shot too but is in tougher being a young defender.

Wouldn't be surprised to see both of them in the lineup though.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hard to carry the puck in from the bench. Ehlers is never ever on the 1st PP.

The year of the Jets PP lines

Maybe the Flames think that forcing a play increases the chance for a loose puck and they avoid doing it thus keeping it safe around the outside and the Jets say make the play, maybe loose puck, likely we get it back.

Fair share kind of implies 50-50.

Your analysis of the Flames PP suggests that Gaudreau is a poor distributor..

Is that what you mean to say?

First, I’ve seen Ehlers on the first unit. Second, fist share of puck battles on a power play means almost all of them because of outmanning the defenders. The Flames are fine at that part. Third, yes, this year Gaudreau is not very good at distributing on the power play. He takes too long which makes him easier to defend and he ends up just passing to Gio for a reset far too often. He doesn’t get the puck to the middle or across the net that often.

[MarkGio]

After watching all the post interviews, Stajan's was the most interesting. He mentioned how his salary might have irked people but he said it wouldn't be a problem going forward. That was kinda sad. He was also so elusive that it made me think the Flames were moving on and haven't talked about an extension

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

ehlers is on the point of the jets 2nd PP

Gaudreau does what Wheeler does but not as good. 34 PP assists to 21 PP assists says that Wheeler is better than Gaudreau in this role... Neither is the shooter 6 goals for Wheeler to 3 for Gaudreau

The whole jet PP is better on puck retrieval..and picks.. They are about 20-30 lbs bigger and 3-4 inches taller.

Laine is the best sniper in the league ... Ehlers on the 2nd PP would be better than Hamilton as well.

The Flames (Tkachuk) are better at pushing the puck in at scrambles... The Jets shoot the puck in not push it in...they don't get as many dirty goals.

Pretty much every player on the Jets PP is more skillful than the Flame trying to do the same job.


What Flame would replace a Jet on their PP... Tkachuk as the behind the net guy instead of Statnsy

Are you actually a flames fan? Because it appears to me you dont really like any flames players. Gaudreau is small, Monahan is one dimensional, Hamilton is a little girl, Tkachuk is overrated, X is not physical, Y is not so and so, this other team is much better, this player on team Z etc etc etc. Is there anything about this team you actually like?

I'm not being an ass about it, I am genuinely curious.