Uber to Resume in Calgary December 6 2016

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Slava

I just get the impression that the City (which has known for a number of years that Uber wanted to operate here), has done nothing, and this is a convenient explanation.

Zero disagreement here that the city hasn't done anything.

My stance on it is that the city can (and should) absolutely change the by-laws in place preventing Uber from operating, and they absolutely created this mess themselves.

However what I don't buy is that the insurance argument is a red herring or convenient excuse, because it's a valid issue. I think the city is largely hiding behind it to deflect blame, but I still think it's valid.

Now if Intact/Provincial regs actually go through with semi-commercial insurance, it will be very telling if the City still takes a hardline stance and refuses to change the bylaws, although it won't surprise me at all if they go that route.

[adc]

Originally Posted by heep223

Obviously everyone has the right to their opinion, but if you haven't depended on transportation from cabs in this city over the last five years, you don't know how terrible it has been.

Oh I agree with that and did say I think there needs to be a better way in Calgary, I just don't think Uber is that better way.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by pylon

Yes. I do say #### em. As others have alluded to, it's the equivalent of buying a scalped hockey ticket at 10x face for the big final game of the season to determine a playoff spot, then finding out the game is meaningless because you got knocked out of the race the night before.

Or putting your money into a house only to discover the hard way that's it in a flood zone.

Or spending thousands on tuition only to graduate into a non-existent job market.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you've made a few posts expressing your sympathy for people who've lost their O&G jobs this year. Yet, you're literally "laughing your head off" at these people who have lost their investment because, according to you, they've got an easy job and are unskilled.

Your posts come across as incredibly elitist.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Are the drivers classified as employees of Uber or are they independent contractors?

If they are contractors how many don't pay tax on the income?

This is a horrible argument against Uber, that's been used far too often, with zero thought behind the statement. I'm guessing it was posted as a facebook meme at one point.

In Canada your personal tax filings are self remitted. It doesn't matter whether you are an employee or a contractor in any industry, you still have the obligation to file your income taxes on time, and accurately. You can be an employee of any industry and just not file your tax return. It's illegal, but it's a choice you can make. You can also deduct things that aren't allowed, hoping to reduce your taxable income and pay less taxes. You don't need to be an Uber driver to do that.

When you go to Canadian tire do you ask the cashier if she is paying her proper taxes on her wages? Do you ask Bingo if he's remitting the right amount for the ad revenue on CP? Do you inspect your plumber's T1 statements from previous years before allowing him to do work in your house?

If you earn income in Canada it is your responsibility to pay the correct taxes on it, whether you are an Uber driver or not.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

When you go to Canadian tire do you ask the cashier if she is paying her proper taxes on her wages?

If you're employed by a company, are there any in Canada that don't take your tax off your paycheque? Are companies even allowed to not take tax off your cheque? Because I'd love to have that option, however I have yet to see a company that offers it. (With of course the exception of filing a Pay Action Request form and having it authorized through the CRA...)

Your analogy confuses me. Because for non-contractors, even if you don't file you've still paid tax. Maybe not all of it, but certainly a large chunk.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

Or putting your money into a house only to discover the hard way that's it in a flood zone.

Or spending thousands on tuition only to graduate into a non-existent job market.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you've made a few posts expressing your sympathy for people who've lost their O&G jobs this year. Yet, you're literally "laughing your head off" at these people who have lost their investment because, according to you, they've got an easy job and are unskilled.

Your posts come across as incredibly elitist.

All of the examples you cited were obtained through conventional and legal means. I can't sympathize for someone that bought something essentially through a black market, and got shafted. Buyer beware. And yes the job is unskilled. If I took up as a cab driver tomorrow, I would be better at it than 99% of the current ones we have. Not only because I have spent 41 years in this City and know it inside out. But because I can actually hold a conversation, and be reasonably polite to people.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Slava

I do agree that the Uber policy is questionable, and I haven't done any major research into its effectiveness or anything like that. I just get the impression that the City (which has known for a number of years that Uber wanted to operate here), has done nothing, and this is a convenient explanation.

I would say, reading on Uber history with other cities that there is nothing that Calgary could do to satisfy Uber other than to allow them to do whatever they want. Uber typically comes into a city, then sees how much the city pushes back. So currently you have cities with virtually no regulation of Uber, cities with some regulation and licensing requirements and a city like New York where all Uber drivers are licensed, their vehicles are licensed and they all carry commercial insurance (very little difference with yellow cabs).

Edmonton's pointed to as an example for Calgary but yet that only came about after Uber started operation months earlier and even now Uber says its not satisfied with the proposed bylaws.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

This is a horrible argument against Uber, that's been used far too often, with zero thought behind the statement. I'm guessing it was posted as a facebook meme at one point.

The contractor argument against Uber is focused on that while Uber classifies its drivers as contractors, it exerts control over them like an employer. This is one area where its suffered repeated losses.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

Or putting your money into a house only to discover the hard way that's it in a flood zone.

Or spending thousands on tuition only to graduate into a non-existent job market.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you've made a few posts expressing your sympathy for people who've lost their O&G jobs this year. Yet, you're literally "laughing your head off" at these people who have lost their investment because, according to you, they've got an easy job and are unskilled.

Your posts come across as incredibly elitist.

I agree it's dickish to point and laugh at these guys, but in each of your examples... yeah, you invested in something you should have known bore some risk and the risk materialized. That is unfortunate for you, but it doesn't necessarily mean you should be treated protectively.

Second point. In this case, we're talking about protection from the free market and other market alternatives that are good for our city and that our city clearly wants. If that hits people in the taxi industry in their pocketbooks, again, unfortunate, but it isn't at all analogous to a flood or natural disaster of some sort.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by accord1999

The contractor argument against Uber is focused on that while Uber classifies its drivers as contractors, it exerts control over them like an employer. This is one area where its suffered repeated losses.

Losses? Can you explain? Because I'm just going based on Wiebe Door, but it seems to me that they have a pretty damned good argument that the individuals in question are independent contractors for Canadian tax purposes...

Also totally unsure as to what bearing this has on anything other than being academically interesting if you're a tax nerd.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Losses? Can you explain? Because I'm just going based on Wiebe Door, but it seems to me that they have a pretty damned good argument that the individuals in question are independent contractors for Canadian tax purposes...

Here's a recent loss in Oregon. The article describes several key factors that are used to determine whether someone is a contractor or employee:

http://www.opb.org/news/article/oreg...are-employees/

This follows a case where an Uber driver in California was declared an employee and the subsequent class-action lawsuit that arose as a result.

Also totally unsure as to what bearing this has on anything other than being academically interesting if you're a tax nerd.

In addition to taxes, it also relates to the financial viability of Uber (and so-called "sharing economy" companies in general).

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

First, that decision is crap in the sense that it's, in my view, clearly wrong on the profit vs loss notion and second, the factors used are different factors than we use to assess the same question in Canada.

I don't know that I agree that even if it were correct, though, that it is some sort of dagger through the heart of viability of ride-share models. It might require some re-jigging of the model to ensure greater independence of drivers though.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by adc

Oh I agree with that and did say I think there needs to be a better way in Calgary, I just don't think Uber is that better way.

If you had experienced what many Calgarians have experienced for years now - being stranded late at night, often in the winter, with no way home - you would realize that pretty much anything is preferable to the status quo.

[Looch City]

I wonder how many people used Uber tonight after the game. Anyone here?

[Qwerty]

Used Uber last night at 2am after the game / casino.

Said no drivers initially, however I think it was more a user error as I was a little intoxicated.

Few minutes of trying and a driver popped up and drove me out west. A typical $45 taxi ride costed me $27 (actually $7 after the $20 promo) and was much more enjoyable talking with the driver.

This will be my new method of transportation when I need a lift.
Great experience.

[verda13]

I used it last night around 1... Centre & 16th to extreme NE $26, cabs are at least $40 to get here.

It took 10min from opening the app to getting in the Jetta. Free water, too!

Great service.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by pylon

All of the examples you cited were obtained through conventional and legal means. I can't sympathize for someone that bought something essentially through a black market, and got shafted. Buyer beware. And yes the job is unskilled. If I took up as a cab driver tomorrow, I would be better at it than 99% of the current ones we have. Not only because I have spent 41 years in this City and know it inside out. But because I can actually hold a conversation, and be reasonably polite to people.

Be reasonably polite? You can't even do that on a hockey forum.

I agree with you that the cab system in Calgary is in shambles. And having Uber in Calgary now is a good thing. But there is no need to start bashing all cabbies. I'm sure a lot of us have had issues with them. Including myself. But not all of them are evil.

Take yourself as an example. The VW scandal angered a lot of people. Now VW has a reputation as a shady car company. Should we lump you into that too?

[heep223]

Trying to get home last night after the game. Uber was saying no cars available. Four of us. 3 cabs drove straight by us with their light on, in slow moving traffic while we were trying to hail them, rolling up their windows when we tried to approach them. The 4th one was trying to do the same but we literally blocked him and got into the cab. He was a dick the entire way home, took a weird route that he said was to avoid traffic, and cost us $35 to get from the dome to central SW.

I simply have zero sympathy for the drivers at this point, and could care less if Uber puts half of them out of business. Nor do I care about the regulations because the entire system is broken.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Be reasonably polite? You can't even do that on a hockey forum.

I spend my entire day speaking to complete strangers, and being vented at because of their poor credit decisions. And I do it with complete professionalism and dignity to my clients. Even if I have a client I do not like on a personal level, I still go out of my way to kill them with kindness. In customer service you have to have that ability to be 'on stage' and fake your way through it if you have to. The client assumed everyone loves them as much as they love themselves.

Having a strong opinion on a topic, on an Internet forum, in no way reflects on my ability to provide the absolute best customer service to anyone I sit with. I have hundreds of clients that will entrust their financial information with nobody in this city, but myself, and many of the members in this forum can attest to that.

Secondly, if you read the VW emissions thread, I was the very first person to express disappointment at what had transpired. This is the difference. 7/10 cabbies I have dealt with are rude a-holes even when I try to be cordial. They build their product per se. And the product they should build is good service, a car that doesn't smell like ass, and the ability to be even remotely polite. They have enormous challenges doing even that. I don't build VW's, I write loans on them. I have zero control over the quality of the product, all I can be responsible for is the quality of the transaction. And I take enormous pride in assuring every customer feels like royalty, even if I'm writing a sub-prime, third tier lender loan. Most cabbies do not have that ability, they look at their customers as burdensome ripoff marks it seems, even though without them, they fail to exist.

That's the difference.

[InglewoodFan]

Took Uber home from the bar on Friday night, was pretty straightforward. Like that it gives you the car model and plate number so it was easy to pick the guy out among all the cabs in front of Craft & National on 10th. Hopefully the cabs saw it. $14 to get home vs over $30 usually. I'm good with that, gave the guy a nice tip since he was a nice dude and got us home quick and easy.

I'll take transit before I'd take another Calgary cab. So many jackholes driving cabs, one nearly hit my wife outside the 'Dome last season. In a crosswalk, walking with dozens of people. He just got tired of waiting. I kicked his quarter panel on the way by, and when he freaked out I suggested we discuss it with the nearby CPS officer. I walk to the 'Dome for games and the cabbies are always tearing around way too fast after games near Cowboys, dodging around the crowds.

I'm conflicted because there is a ton about the Uber business model I don't like, but something has to give in the crap show that is the Calgary cab business. Was telling to see that when council was talking about the limo rules in the last few weeks, there was mention in the papers that there was extra security present due to the large crowd of cabbies. Buncha thugs.