[News] Oilers hire Chiarelli as Hockey Ops President and GM. MacTavish and Lowe stay in org

[you.got.bazinga]

ignore

[calgarywinning]

I continue to insist that the organization will dampen what could be the full impact of such a talented player even with the sweeping changes made to date.

The management, coaching and player base are all part of the problem. They have room to make changes by winning the draft. They will have to move high level players at the right value in order to rebuild. I don't think they are prepared to do that.

I think the interesting part will be to see the parts move out into the NHL universe and whether they are now able to produce as 1st rounders outside the Edmonton system.

As far as McDavid and his agent telling an NHL franchise how to behave, that's almost the exact opposite of what is going on in Calgary. Feaster always said that they were going to rebuild based on people that play for the crest on the front of the jersey instead of the number on the back.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

That is quite a dramatic jump to of conclusions.

I don't think so at all, McDavid is already making big NHL type endorsement money before he is even drafted, any good agent would make sure his star earner will be looked after going forward. People look at their salary and think "that's it" but if your a star in the right place it's far from it.
Crosby makes $4-5m a year in endorsements, AO about $3m, same with Stamkos and a few others. McDavid going to a dysfunctional crap hole team/city like Edmonton is not a good thing for his future. If I was his agent I wouldn't even talk to MacT, I would go right to Katz and say: if you don't fix the mess here...don't bother drafting my client as he will love his junior team for 2 more years.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Isn't the QMJHL GPG average far higher than the OHL?

No, I think that's an old misconception at this point. It's too late and I've had a few too many drinks at this point but last I remember they were all in the 6.5-7 goals per game range.

T@T brings up an interesting point with Crosby vs McDavid. Connor McDavid is 18 and has been since January. Sidney Crosby didn't turn 18 until two months after his draft. Might not sound like much, but 7 months of extra developing is quite a bit at those ages.

Regardless McDavid is leaps better then anything they ever drafted at number one overall before but the generational talent label might be iffy. (and usually is to be honest, it gets thrown around way too much)

[getbak]

Sportsnet listed the three best (and three worst) deals that Chiarelli made in Boston: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/t...ves-in-boston/


The best is the Chara signing.

I don't remember the timeline, but according the post by opendoor earlier in this thread (post #275), Chiarelli might not even deserve credit for the Chara signing. He had been hired by the Bruins, but was limited in how much involvement he could have with the team initially. Here's the original ESPN story on Chara's signing, and it only has a quote from Jeff Gorton, who was the Bruins' interim GM at the time: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2506763

Nothing from Chiarelli in there at all (which doesn't mean Chara didn't sign with the Bruins because of his familiarity with Chiarelli in Ottawa).


The second best is the Kessel trade. I'm always reluctant to give a GM too much credit for acquiring unknown draft picks.

All he got for Kessel was three future draft picks, with no idea of where they would fall in the draft. It was essentially slightly better than the compensation they would have received if Toronto had given Kessel an RFA Offer Sheet and Boston chose to not match it. For the deal Kessel signed, if it would have been an offer sheet, Boston would have received Toronto's first, second, and third round picks in 2010. If the Leafs would have offered a bigger contract to reduce the chances that Boston would match, it could have been Toronto's first, second, and third in 2010 plus their first in 2011.

Burke basically split the difference and gave up two firsts and a second, but made sure he owned the player's rights, rather than giving out an offer sheet that would have either overpaid the player or likely been matched.

Chiarelli got decent value for an RFA he was having trouble signing, but if Toronto had been a middle of the road or playoff team in those two seasons, he'd look a lot less like a genius if those picks turned into Jaden Schwartz and JT Miller instead of Seguin and Hamilton (and those are two of the better players taken in the mid-first in those drafts...they could have been a lot worse).



One interesting thing is that Boston had two top five draft picks in their system during Chiarelli's time there, and neither of them were still with the Bruins when their second contracts started. He is certainly not afraid to trade away young players.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Isn't the QMJHL GPG average far higher than the OHL?

QMJHL, 2004–05 (Crosby's last year): 3,572 goals scored in 560 games played, or 6.38 total GPG. The average team scored 223 goals, and Crosby led the league with 168 points – 52 points ahead of the second-place player, his teammate Dany Roussin. Crosby's point total was the equivalent of getting a point on 75 percent of an average team's goals. He actually had points on just over half of Rimouski's goals; they were an offensive machine that year.

OHL, 2014–15: 4,474 goals scored in 680 games played, or 6.58 total GPG. The average team scored 224 goals, and McDavid was third in league scoring with 120 points – nine points behind the leader, teammate Dylan Strome. McDavid's point total was equivalent to getting a point on 54 percent of an average team's goals. Like Rimouski in '04-05, Erie was an offensive machine this year; McDavid actually had points on just 36 percent of the Otters' goals.

tl;dr: The OHL this year was actually a higher-scoring league than the QMJHL in Crosby's time. McDavid did not even come close to dominating the OHL the way Crosby dominated the Q. He did have similar numbers to what Crosby put up in '03-04.

Is McDavid comparable to Crosby? Maybe. Is he clearly superior to Crosby, based on what he's shown so far? No.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

QMJHL, 2004–05 (Crosby's last year): 3,572 goals scored in 560 games played, or 6.38 total GPG. The average team scored 223 goals, and Crosby led the league with 168 points – 52 points ahead of the second-place player, his teammate Dany Roussin. Crosby's point total was the equivalent of getting a point on 75 percent of an average team's goals. He actually had points on just over half of Rimouski's goals; they were an offensive machine that year.

OHL, 2014–15: 4,474 goals scored in 680 games played, or 6.58 total GPG. The average team scored 224 goals, and McDavid was third in league scoring with 120 points – nine points behind the leader, teammate Dylan Strome. McDavid's point total was equivalent to getting a point on 54 percent of an average team's goals. Like Rimouski in '04-05, Erie was an offensive machine this year; McDavid actually had points on just 36 percent of the Otters' goals.

tl;dr: The OHL this year was actually a higher-scoring league than the QMJHL in Crosby's time. McDavid did not even come close to dominating the OHL the way Crosby dominated the Q. He did have similar numbers to what Crosby put up in '03-04.

Thanks.

That makes me feel quite optimistic, considering how well Ehlers has been doing this year.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

No, I think that's an old misconception at this point. It's too late and I've had a few too many drinks at this point but last I remember they were all in the 6.5-7 goals per game range.

T@T brings up an interesting point with Crosby vs McDavid. Connor McDavid is 18 and has been since January. Sidney Crosby didn't turn 18 until two months after his draft. Might not sound like much, but 7 months of extra developing is quite a bit at those ages.

Regardless McDavid is leaps better then anything they ever drafted at number one overall before but the generational talent label might be iffy. (and usually is to be honest, it gets thrown around way too much)

I'm not so sure he's much better than Hall or Hopkins really, to me generational talents come every 10 or 15 years, admittedly I only seen him live twice and on TV 3-4 times but he he just doesn't show enough drive for me to consider the term generational!

As a few here know a relative of mine is a pro scout back east(and a damn good one), he gave me the goods on Monahan and Bennett who I pimped here enough to get into arguments over.

Funny how those arguements stopped!

I said last year(look it up) Eichel could very well be the best player in this coming draft and McDavid is being overhyped.Might be wrong but because the game has changed(Edmonton) I'm sticking to it.

Here's another player that I'll pimp a little early and hope the flames get a chance to pick..

Thomas Chabot (St. John)

[Vulcan]

Looking at Chiarelli's trade record, it ain't that great but you have to consider he was with a top team that was willing to overpay because their time was now. His hiring is the first step to changing the team culture and hiring an experienced hard nosed NHL coach should be his next priority. Give it some time to see who buys in to the new culture and who doesn't before making any big moves and in the meanwhile try to pick up some journeymen vets to round out the roster. They aren't going to win anything next season anyways so IMO I'd take it slow before making any drastic moves.

If the Blues lose to the Wild, Hitchcock, amongst others may be available.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by RITFW

bs

You have an insightful and well reasoned argument, your views intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

McDavid did not even come close to dominating the OHL the way Crosby dominated the Q.

Er.. He did come close. He did however play 15 less games.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by T@T

I don't think so at all, McDavid is already making big NHL type endorsement money before he is even drafted, any good agent would make sure his star earner will be looked after going forward. People look at their salary and think "that's it" but if your a star in the right place it's far from it.
Crosby makes $4-5m a year in endorsements, AO about $3m, same with Stamkos and a few others. McDavid going to a dysfunctional crap hole team/city like Edmonton is not a good thing for his future. If I was his agent I wouldn't even talk to MacT, I would go right to Katz and say: if you don't fix the mess here...don't bother drafting my client as he will love his junior team for 2 more years.

That's really what it is about... marketing. McDavid was identified as an elite talent at a young age, so a lot of the "generational talent" talk is about selling the game and selling merchandise. It was the same thing with Crosby. He was never going to being the next Gretzky. Top of his class? Sure. Best player in the world for a window of a few years, absolutely. A sport changing athlete? Nope.

Like Crosby, McDavid could very well be a piece that you build a championship team around, but he isn't going to be a game changer. I just think the talent in hockey has evolved to the point that there is a lot less separating "generational talent", from the elite talent you would typically expect from draft to draft.

[AlbertaOiler72]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

QMJHL, 2004–05 (Crosby's last year): 3,572 goals scored in 560 games played, or 6.38 total GPG. The average team scored 223 goals, and Crosby led the league with 168 points – 52 points ahead of the second-place player, his teammate Dany Roussin. Crosby's point total was the equivalent of getting a point on 75 percent of an average team's goals. He actually had points on just over half of Rimouski's goals; they were an offensive machine that year.

OHL, 2014–15: 4,474 goals scored in 680 games played, or 6.58 total GPG. The average team scored 224 goals, and McDavid was third in league scoring with 120 points – nine points behind the leader, teammate Dylan Strome. McDavid's point total was equivalent to getting a point on 54 percent of an average team's goals. Like Rimouski in '04-05, Erie was an offensive machine this year; McDavid actually had points on just 36 percent of the Otters' goals.

tl;dr: The OHL this year was actually a higher-scoring league than the QMJHL in Crosby's time. McDavid did not even come close to dominating the OHL the way Crosby dominated the Q. He did have similar numbers to what Crosby put up in '03-04.

Is McDavid comparable to Crosby? Maybe. Is he clearly superior to Crosby, based on what he's shown so far? No.

this is false...McDavid was injured for much of the season which skewed his stats

In the 47 games McDavid played for Erie, the team scored 248 goals....thus he was in on 48.4% on their goals

in the playoffs, he's even more impressive...scoring at a 2.73 PPG clip (Crosby was at a 2.38 PPG pace..)and in on 59% of the Otters goals

[CroFlames]

This officially has made me worried about the Oilers.

I desperately need the Flames to win tonight to calm my ass down.

[timbit]

McDavid's remarkable playoff performance ( PPG) is of little relevance , concerning his next half decade in Edmonton

[T@T]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

this is false...McDavid was injured for much of the season which skewed his stats

In the 47 games McDavid played for Erie, the team scored 248 goals....thus he was in on 48.4% on their goals

in the playoffs, he's even more impressive...scoring at a 2.73 PPG clip (Crosby was at a 2.38 PPG pace..)and in on 59% of the Otters goals

Crosby did that at 17 in his second CHL season, McDavid was 1.35ppg in his.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mike F

All of Chiarelli's trades listed here.

To be quite honest, it doesn't exactly leave me quaking in my boots at the inevitability of Edmonton's turn around.

Trades aren't the only duty of a GM. In fact, it isn't anywhere near the most important part of the job. How many trades does Ken Holland make? NHL GMs are responsible for overseeing:

Scouting
Drafting
Player development
Cap management
UFA signings
Trades
Hiring key personnel, including coaches
Management of everyone else in hockey operations

That last one is key. GMs are managers of people. They try to bring in good people, establish a sound structure for the organizations, and inspire those people and give them direction and feedback. Again, a guy like Ken Holland excels at that. He doesn't need to win a bunch of trades to be a top-notch manager.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Trades are probably one of the least important thing a GM does nowadays.

[5by5]

Beg to differ. Two recent events come to mind. The Kings won the cup last yr because of a deadline trade and ChiaPet is in Edmonton because he screwed up trading Boychuk and Thorton last yr. B4 u say it, yes injuries plyed a part in his demise (missing plyoffs by 1 pt) BUT he blew up the chemistry on the blue line. Cost him his job. No?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

QMJHL, 2004–05 (Crosby's last year): 3,572 goals scored in 560 games played, or 6.38 total GPG. The average team scored 223 goals, and Crosby led the league with 168 points – 52 points ahead of the second-place player, his teammate Dany Roussin. Crosby's point total was the equivalent of getting a point on 75 percent of an average team's goals. He actually had points on just over half of Rimouski's goals; they were an offensive machine that year.

OHL, 2014–15: 4,474 goals scored in 680 games played, or 6.58 total GPG. The average team scored 224 goals, and McDavid was third in league scoring with 120 points – nine points behind the leader, teammate Dylan Strome. McDavid's point total was equivalent to getting a point on 54 percent of an average team's goals. Like Rimouski in '04-05, Erie was an offensive machine this year; McDavid actually had points on just 36 percent of the Otters' goals.

tl;dr: The OHL this year was actually a higher-scoring league than the QMJHL in Crosby's time. McDavid did not even come close to dominating the OHL the way Crosby dominated the Q. He did have similar numbers to what Crosby put up in '03-04.

Is McDavid comparable to Crosby? Maybe. Is he clearly superior to Crosby, based on what he's shown so far? No.

The giant huge gaping hole in your analysis is that Crosby played almost all of Rimouski's games, McDavid did not. Otherwise McDavid's stats are more impressive.

You can't use % of total team goals of you aren't correcting for games played