2014-15 General Adirondack Flames Discussion Thread

[thymebalm]

I'm worried about the coaching staff over there... How long before Treliving decides Huska was a mistake? I know coaches can't afford to lose consistently at the NHL level, but how long of a leash do you think he's giving Huska, ie, what if they have one win in their first 10 games? Is that a coaching issue? Is that a player personnel problem?

The forward ranks are loaded with skill, but they aren't scoring, and the rookie d-corp and rookie coach are not doing anything positive defensively.

Adirondack really looking like it needs the attention of BT.

[Ashasx]

I'm sure Treliving is well aware of what's going on there, and I doubt he panics.

There will be a transition phase for this team and I'm sure he anticipated it. I don't think you'll be able to say anything definitive for 20 some games.

[Drury18]

Fully understanding the can of worms I'm opening here but doing up the stats tonight, a couple of players caught my attention.

While most players are seeing their points and +/- numbers going up or holding steady, two players have free-falled: Baertschi and Knight.

Baertschi got his first point (an assist) tonight, and currently has a +/- of -9, the worst on the team. He's 4th on the team in shots, but in with first year AHL players and guys who you wouldn't expect to be shooters as well as players who have NOT been in all 8 games. If you take out his one game with 4 shots, which was an anomaly, he's only averaged just over one shot per game. Even with the 4 shot game, he's barely at 2 shots per game. Last year, he was just over 2 shots a game. This isn't going to earn him a call-up anytime soon, nor is it up to his supposed caliber of play. Again, we have an issue of why is Sven not playing great.

Knight is a -5 and has a goal in 8 games and is 6th on the team in shots, but hasn't done alot in most games and the last game caused a few turnovers and taking some dumb penalties. Knight has the same problem with SOG. He's at about 1.75 per game and has two games with 0 SOG. He's been improving this stat for the the last 4 games, but it is concerning especially as he was getting to be very consistent with 2-3 SOG per game at the end of last year. I don't see him getting a call from the NHL Flames anytime soon either and again, he's supposed to be further along in development and someone that's on the cusp of the full time call-up.

Baertschi and Knight have been playing together the last few games, but judging by these stats, they need to be split up. This is not helping either's case to get called up to the NHL. They aren't producing points and they are obviously not playing much defensively either. Most of the Flames started out the year with a rough +/- but have improved. I just keep entering lower and lower numbers for these two.

[Ashasx]

+/- is more indicative of their poor offensive numbers than of poor defensive play. You cannot say "obviously not playing much defensively either" when, if they had a little more puck luck and a few more points, their +/- would be around the team average.

It's a trash stat anyway.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

As far as the plus/minus goes, these are two players who have been a work in progress on the defensive side of the puck. Both still need time from that aspect.

But their offensive output is really strange considering Sven's on the second PP unit and Knight is playing the point on the first PP unit.

I agree with you Drury about breaking the two up. Huska began putting "energy" type guys with those two the last few games. Wolf didn't work, so they put BVB with Knight, BVB didn't work, so they tried Hathaway.

Hopefully their woes are simply a byproduct of the team's dreadful play (save for last night).

[Racki]

Ferland has been quietly putting up a point per game. Can't wait to see him in Calgary. I'd assume he'll get the call the next time we lose a winger on the big club. I think this kid is gonna be a player. He just needed to tidy up some of his off ice stuff. It appears that he has...

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

I'm worried about the coaching staff over there... How long before Treliving decides Huska was a mistake? I know coaches can't afford to lose consistently at the NHL level, but how long of a leash do you think he's giving Huska, ie, what if they have one win in their first 10 games? Is that a coaching issue? Is that a player personnel problem?

It's still October.....a new coach with new players, new system, and a few players not living up to their potential. I don't think Treliving thinks hiring Huska is a mistake at all, at least certainly not now.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It's still October.....a new coach with new players, new system, and a few players not living up to their potential. I don't think Treliving thinks hiring Huska is a mistake at all, at least certainly not now.

Yeah, It's October, but the issue is they don't play as many games in the AHL, and we as Flames fans know how hard it is to make up for a crappy October as every team gets better as the season goes on.

Nice to see some scoring, but "where's the D?"

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Yeah, It's October, but the issue is they don't play as many games in the AHL, and we as Flames fans know how hard it is to make up for a crappy October as every team gets better as the season goes on.

Nice to see some scoring, but "where's the D?"

The AHL also doesn't really matter much in terms of Wins and Losses. Wins are always better, but it isn't vital. What is vital is having players learn new skills and get experience against good players. I was expecting this team to push for both the playoffs and championship, but that might have been expecting too much out of such a young roster.

Growing pains are just part of the fun process. There isn't anything to worry about right now. If we hit the 40 game mark and Reinhart/Sven/Knight/Arnold have about 10 points each, then get worried about their offensive abilities. Now, it's still early and the staff is trying to figure out the right approach with them. That takes time.

We also have a very young defense, with only Yonkman, Cundari and Stevenson being vets, and two of those have been terrible in their own end (Cundari and Stevenson). All the rest of the guys are rookies or in their 2nd years in the AHL. It's hard for any rookie to step into a higher level and be expected to be awesome right away.

Just be patient. It's still extremely early.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The AHL also doesn't really matter much in terms of Wins and Losses. Wins are always better, but it isn't vital. What is vital is having players learn new skills and get experience against good players. I was expecting this team to push for both the playoffs and championship, but that might have been expecting too much out of such a young roster.

Growing pains are just part of the fun process. There isn't anything to worry about right now. If we hit the 40 game mark and Reinhart/Sven/Knight/Arnold have about 10 points each, then get worried about their offensive abilities. Now, it's still early and the staff is trying to figure out the right approach with them. That takes time.

We also have a very young defense, with only Yonkman, Cundari and Stevenson being vets, and two of those have been terrible in their own end (Cundari and Stevenson). All the rest of the guys are rookies or in their 2nd years in the AHL. It's hard for any rookie to step into a higher level and be expected to be awesome right away.

Just be patient. It's still extremely early.

I can afford patience on D because I'm actually quite excited for Kulak, Culkin, Wotherspoon, and Ramage. I think each has the opportunity to make the league, and that's pretty special. But they maybe have 100 pro games between the lot of them.

What I do care for is developing that winning culture early on for these prospects. I felt like Abby was able to roll during the bad times because they had developed a major sense that they -could- win on any given night. So while it's all about development, the mental aspect is a major component of that.

I never knew I'd miss Chad Billins, Derek Smith, et al so much.

[Caged Great]

I know what you mean. Hopefully Potter gets sent down there and they then ship out guys like Stevenson and Cundari. If you have a defensive lineup of Potter, Yonkman, and Wotherspoon playing almost every game, and cycling in Ramage, Kulak, Culkin and Sieloff on a rotation, then the overall talent level down there will be improved. Unfortunately that doesn't help today.

The other problem is that usually teams have more veteran forwards as well. Fortunately/unfortunately, the flames have a lot of quality young forwards in the AHL, where it wouldn't be in their best developmental interest to get rotated in in favour of a vet or two.

[Lobsterfreak]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I know what you mean. Hopefully Potter gets sent down there and they then ship out guys like Stevenson and Cundari. If you have a defensive lineup of Potter, Yonkman, and Wotherspoon playing almost every game, and cycling in Ramage, Kulak, Culkin and Sieloff on a rotation, then the overall talent level down there will be improved. Unfortunately that doesn't help today.

The other problem is that usually teams have more veteran forwards as well. Fortunately/unfortunately, the flames have a lot of quality young forwards in the AHL, where it wouldn't be in their best developmental interest to get rotated in in favour of a vet or two.

You always seem to have some twisted and petty criticism about Stevenson and Cundari. Stevenson is a good player and made you eat crow last week when he got 3 or 4 pts in a game. Couldn't help but think at how stupid you sounded. As for Cundari, I believe he played 2 full games and was injured part way through the 3rd. The entire team sucked in those 1st 2 games. Not sure which coach it was now, but one of them had mentioned he was the most well rounded at that point. But, I'm sure you know better. Pretty small sample size for you to be tearing players apart. Hopefully Potter scores you some credibility.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Lobsterfreak

You always seem to have some twisted and petty criticism about Stevenson and Cundari. Stevenson is a good player and made you eat crow last week when he got 3 or 4 pts in a game. Couldn't help but think at how stupid you sounded. As for Cundari, I believe he played 2 full games and was injured part way through the 3rd. The entire team sucked in those 1st 2 games. Not sure which coach it was now, but one of them had mentioned he was the most well rounded at that point. But, I'm sure you know better. Pretty small sample size for you to be tearing players apart. Hopefully Potter scores you some credibility.

There's a difference between being good offensively and being good. Both Stevenson and Cundari are skilled offensively, but so are Wotherspoon, Kulak and Culkin. The difference between those guys and the kids are those two are not at all good defensively. Cundari had problems in both the training camp and with his first few games in the A this year with his decision making with and without the puck. Stevenson sports similar issues with his positioning in his own end, which causes his partner Yonkman to also get out of position to cover. There's a reason why the Addy Flames started poorly, and it's due in large part to their defense.

The surprising thing is that I actually like Cundari and wish that he was doing better. He just isn't doing as good as he should be. With his level of experience, he should be the one of best defensemen. He's been in the bottom 3 with Stevenson and Yonkman (who has been better of late). Stevenson spent almost all his time in the last 4 years in the ECHL, so it's not like I'm going out on a limb saying that he's not very good. There's usually a reason why a player is in the ECHL. The main reason I belive that the Flames got him was because he's willing to drop the gloves. He's averaged 110 PIM in the last 3 years. The Flames have brought in quite a few mediocre guys just for truculence, like Gillies, Tousignant, Stevenson, Wolf and even Acolatse can be a pest at times. He can chip in offensively, like we saw in his 3 point game, but if he was as skilled defensively as he is offensively, he would be pushing for an NHL spot, if not locking one down already (he is 6-5 220).

I will point out when players are doing something worse than others and that's what I've been doing here. It's like pointing out how Diaz and Engelland have made some real bad errors in their games up here, where guys like Russell Brodie and Gio haven't made nearly as many. Is that slamming Diaz and Engelland? Perhaps, but with merit and cause. Also, coaches will never criticize their own player's game ever. A) because it will usually harm the relationship between team/coach and player, and B) because it doesn't help a developing player fix the problem. Usually the only time a coach will call out a specific player is if it's a guy on the NHL roster and he's trying to get more out of him (say a slumping forward in a playoff series). What they should be and likely are doing is working with them to try and address their issues.

My criticisms are always pointing out things that I've been seeing in the immediate. That can change, either with them coming out of a slump or working on the issue, or it doesn't and then that player either has something that is good enough in another skill department to keep them, or you replace them. Cundari and Stevenson, while good offensively are not much if at all better than any of Spoon, Kulak or Culkin. Because of that they are in my opinion replaceable, especially with both a lack of roster spots (6) and too many bodies (10 once Potter gets there).

That can change, and it is something that I'll be looking at when they play. If both Cundari and Stevenson turn it around in their own end, then I'll be pleased because they'll be contributing positively. Thus far they haven't.

[Lobsterfreak]

If Stevenson was so bad, he would not have played 6 of the 7 games thus far. Means at this point based on his overall game, someone making the decision is allowing him to be played more than Culkin, Sieloff or Kulak. Cundari is a proven veteran. He can turn things around for a team. Read back as to why the Chicago Wolves demanded him in exchange for Corey Locke last year. He delivered and was their top D along side Chorney. The trade or loan was great for both teams. He is a good player with a slow 2 and half game start and unfortunate early injury this year, that's all. Hopefully he return from injury and can do what we know he can.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The AHL also doesn't really matter much in terms of Wins and Losses. Wins are always better, but it isn't vital. What is vital is having players learn new skills and get experience against good players. I was expecting this team to push for both the playoffs and championship, but that might have been expecting too much out of such a young roster.

Growing pains are just part of the fun process. There isn't anything to worry about right now. If we hit the 40 game mark and Reinhart/Sven/Knight/Arnold have about 10 points each, then get worried about their offensive abilities. Now, it's still early and the staff is trying to figure out the right approach with them. That takes time.

We also have a very young defense, with only Yonkman, Cundari and Stevenson being vets, and two of those have been terrible in their own end (Cundari and Stevenson). All the rest of the guys are rookies or in their 2nd years in the AHL. It's hard for any rookie to step into a higher level and be expected to be awesome right away.

Just be patient. It's still extremely early.

Sven/Reinhart/Knight aren't rookies. They need to produce. Its too soon to call their start a disaster, but the time is coming where you have to admit they aren't great prospects anymore.

Sven has gone from 0.81 PPG to 0.71 PPG to 0.13 PPG in his three AHL seasons. If you saw that from an Oilers prospect we'd all be crowing about how he's a bust. Its still early, but he's got to start to actually do something.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Sven/Reinhart/Knight aren't rookies. They need to produce. Its too soon to call their start a disaster, but the time is coming where you have to admit they aren't great prospects anymore.

Sven has gone from 0.81 PPG to 0.71 PPG to 0.13 PPG in his three AHL seasons. If you saw that from an Oilers prospect we'd all be crowing about how he's a bust. Its still early, but he's got to start to actually do something.

Still too early to write any of them off as prospects but they are tier 2 prospects in that they may have a place in the NHL one day but probably not major building blocks going forward.

[herashak]

How good is granlunds two way game? Is he more of a top 6 only prospect?

[Fire]

Odds are that Ferland will be the next forward to be called up? Can play either wing. Plays a hard-nosed style that is lacking from our top-9.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by herashak

How good is granlunds two way game? Is he more of a top 6 only prospect?

Though it was a short sample size, Hartley seemed to love Granlund's 2-way game in the NHL. IIRC, he threw out Granlund for important defensive zone faceoffs. He made no secret as to how much he loved him. Considering Hartley has been critical of Sven's defensive play, I would venture to say that Granlund was at the very least passable in the defensive zone. I used to think he was a top 6 or bust kind of prospect, but really see him as a top 9 player now - though I bet he makes it as a top 6 player in Calgary.

[Ulrith]

Originally Posted by herashak

How good is granlunds two way game? Is he more of a top 6 only prospect?

The biggest knock from my (albiet limited) viewing is skating speed.

He seems to have good instincts and decent positioning, but he's unlikely to catch anyone if they get by him.

Not that there aren't lots of NHLers with the same mantra, but I think he's much more suited to a top 6 role where he can be a sniper with that wicked shot of his.