Is Bob Hartley the right coach for this team?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

I think the Gaudreau reactions are hilarious. One situation has absolutely nothing to do with the other. TTC actually gave me the idea for the Baertschi/Hartley/Gaudreau drinking game. I only post the gifs to emphasize how often that reaction comes up.

If you think it's so ridiculous, it would be better if you just didn't respond to it instead of mocking people while trying to be funny.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Is it too much to ask for the Flames, now in their first official year of rebuilding, to conduct a wide reaching interview process for a General Manager and Coach that have no current affiliation with the organization to help guide this rebuild?

That's my problem here.

All the decisions are made through the lens of the previous terrible decisions having been made.

The lineage goes back to Darryl Sutter now. Is it too much to ask for a clean break; a fresh start?

Go outside the organization and interview candidates. See what is out there for GMs and coaches. Just TALK to them and see if maybe there is a better alternative to a guy who got the job based on his 'interim' basis, and a coach who is that guy's kids Godfather who hadn't coached an NHL game in nearly a decade? Can the Flames at least try something that doesn't reek from the outset?

Bring in a new GM and Coach. If they have the same problems with Baertschi the current ones do now then so be it, but don't make me second guess every decision made by this group with the trailing perspective of ineptitude. I don't care about the wins and losses this season, I care about setting the franchise up for long term success. If the rumblings that they are already looking to add bigger pieces is true, the writing should be on the wall for Burke the same way it was for Davidson when Howson started to look to trade their first rounder last season. Canned before he could do any more harm.

I know he is flavour of the month right now, but if the Oilers don't pick up Regier, the Flames should be making a heavy push for him. Having a guy like that in control of trades would give me a much better feeling about the direction of the team than having Feaster pulling the trigger, even if he is a glorified yes-man at this point.

Burke might be the first step in that direction, and I hope the makeup of the front office and bench staff is completely different by next season.

Missing out on Nill because we had Feaster in place feels like falling face first into a cheese grater.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Is it too much to ask for the Flames, now in their first official year of rebuilding, to conduct a wide reaching interview process for a General Manager and Coach that have no current affiliation with the organization to help guide this rebuild?

That's my problem here.

[...]


Burke might be the first step in that direction, and I hope the makeup of the front office and bench staff is completely different by next season.

I imagine that will be the case once the season is done, if it isn't done sooner. Burke is going to want a GM and coach that will be suited for the type of team he wants to have built. Whether Feaster sticks around or not, I can't see Hartley staying since he's not the type of coach that will be suited for the system I imagine Burke wants. Nor will he have the results to be kept around.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I imagine that will be the case once the season is done, if it isn't done sooner. Burke is going to want a GM and coach that will be suited for the type of team he wants to have built. Whether Feaster sticks around or not, I can't see Hartley staying since he's not the type of coach that will be suited for the system I imagine Burke wants. Nor will he have the results to be kept around.

Burke inherited a team with a GM nobody else in the league would hire and a head coach that nobody else in the league would hire. That said I imagine he's open to giving them every chance available to prove their worth and it's just a matter of time until one of them does something that he doesn't feel is good for the organization moving forward. IMO it is getting close to time that Feaster has to intervene with his head coach and ask if Sven should be sent down to Abbotsford because what's going on right now is counterproductive to all involved.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by nik-

Nope, Feaster needs to make sure the godfather of his son has a nice Nest Egg. Can't fire him.

I'd be worried that Burke would give Ron Wilson another chance. Same type of garbage as Feaster - Hartley.

If Burke doesn't hire Wilson, I'd be open to a house cleaning from him down. Between Feaster, Hartley and Keenan, the Flames have given a lot of guys that are out of the NHL for a long time another go. Maybe Burke can attract some more recent talent?

[wingmaker]

And according to Steinberg, Sven is in the lineup.

But don't let me interrupt the lynch mob.

[nik-]

I don't think Laviolette is a great coach, but I'd much rather give him a shot for this year than continue with Hartley. I think Laviolette was in some part a victim of the Holmgren blender.

[CliffFletcher]

Given the amount of ice time and responsibility Hartley has given Monahan this season, and Brodie last year, it's hard to conclude that he hates skilled young players.

Having said that, if Baertschi really isn't ready for the NHL, just send him down to the minors. And if he sulks about it, then we know that it's an attitude problem on his part, and not a coaching issue.

[Badgers Nose]

I see a lot of similarities between Sven and how Kadri was handled when Burke was with the Leafs.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I see a lot of similarities between Sven and how Kadri was handled when Burke was with the Leafs.

Yeah, and Kadri has gone from being a player with widely reported motivation issues to a key contributor.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I see a lot of similarities between Sven and how Kadri was handled when Burke was with the Leafs.

Yeah but they sent Kadri down and didn't dick around with him in the NHL. He would get in the lineup for a few games and then get sent down. I said at the beginning of the season that Sven should be playing with the Heat and it's now looking more than ever like that should be done.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah but they sent Kadri down and didn't dick around with him in the NHL. He would get in the lineup for a few games and then get sent down. I said at the beginning of the season that Sven should be playing with the Heat and it's now looking more than ever like that should be done.

This I think is valid. I don't really have too much of a problem with Sven sitting from time to time. But I do think there is a valid debate about whether the AHL might be a better place for him at this time, especially with Abbotsford having so much success.

[Envitro]

My main problem with the game on Saturday night was that McGrattan wasn't unleashed on Ference as soon as he was out of the penalty box.

What he did to Stempniak was uncalled for and there should have been retribution. I coach hockey as well, and I'd be perfectly fine with taking the 2 min instigator to a send a message to the opponent, and everyone else in the league, that you can't go after our guys without knowing that you'll have to pay for it. That's the whole point of having a guy like Grats in the lineup.

I thought that it was a dumb move not do to it, driven out of fear of giving up a PP opportunity. Maybe this speaks to the level of fragility on the team and Bob's feeling on whether they could psychologically handle it if they got scored on.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Envitro

My main problem with the game on Saturday night was that McGrattan wasn't unleashed on Ference as soon as he was out of the penalty box.

What he did to Stempniak was uncalled for and there should have been retribution. I coach hockey as well, and I'd be perfectly fine with taking the 2 min instigator to a send a message to the opponent, and everyone else in the league, that you can't go after our guys without knowing that you'll have to pay for it. That's the whole point of having a guy like Grats in the lineup.

I thought that it was a dumb move not do to it, driven out of fear of giving up a PP opportunity. Maybe this speaks to the level of fragility on the team and Bob's feeling on whether they could psychologically handle it if they got scored on.

Whats the point of having Grats in the line up if he isn't going to do anything when our guys get jumped for a clean hit. Ferrence should have been eating knuckle, whether he wanted to fight or not. Sometimes I think grats follows "the code" of fighters to strict and only fights guys his size of bigger.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

1) It is a rebuild.

2) The hot trash teams back in the 90's were better than this one. Flames NEVER finished lower than 6th last, even with rookie coaches who proved themselves to be horrible. This team is LESS talented and LESS well-put together than any team of that era.

I actually don't think it's that we're worse than in the 90's. I think however that league is stronger now with fewer weak teams and in particular the Western conference and especially our division are significantly stronger than in the 90's.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Given the amount of ice time and responsibility Hartley has given Monahan this season, and Brodie last year, it's hard to conclude that he hates skilled young players.

Having said that, if Baertschi really isn't ready for the NHL, just send him down to the minors. And if he sulks about it, then we know that it's an attitude problem on his part, and not a coaching issue.

Eh, he started the season last year with Brodie a scratch, only for him to be one of the brightest spots in the lineup after he got in. I don't know what Horak did, but he was (admittedly, barely) an NHL'er before Hartley arrived on the scene. Blair Jones is good enough to make this roster if Galiardi can, so is Ben Street for that matter. The roster isn't good enough to justify scratching Baertschi without demoting him to the AHL. While he plays a different role, I think this season he's been better than Galiardi, Jackman, McGrattan and Glencross (maybe Backlund as well).

I don't think Hartley 'hates young skilled players', I think he's not a very good coach, relative to his NHL peers, who likely coached himself out of the NHL because of a combination of personality and lacking results. He's the Jay Feaster version of Mike Keenan.

I don't think he should be canned because the Flames are losing or because he's mistreating Baertschi or other such notions, it's that I don't think he's an NHL quality coach (especially for a team like what Calgary has right now) and I'd like to see the team get similar results with a more structured, teaching coach than one who appears to, from the outside, hold some more accountable than others and who appears to lack the defensive necessary to help shield some roster players.

Now that the team has seemingly committed to a rebuild, I would like to see them not half-ass it and bring in support characters to help teach and mould the roster, not a guy who was hired to coach a bunch of veterans into a last-gasp playoff run, or an assistant who was here during the last competitive hockey the team played a decade ago. I'm sure Gelinas is just fine as a guy and a coach, but living in Calgary during the offseason shouldn't be part of the criteria for the interview process.

[Psytic]

Im not sure what people want exactly. Do we want to a coach to play out the string and load up on picks or do we want a Lemaire, Trotz, Tippet type to come in and coach some lockdown hockey so we win games? What is our actual expectation for a coach for this team. People are mad when we lose but thats expected its a rebuild, can you guys not handle it?

[Poe969]

I'm not mad at all when we lose. I'm mad by the line combos, the scratching of some players while others seem to all but play their way off the team only to get a promotion to a better line, the way he dosn't stick up for his players or the way he lets some players get beat up and doesn't do anything about it.

I just don't like Harley as a coach, I don't think I ever have.

I'm fine if we lose every game, most expected that anyway. The way we lose the games is what gets to me.

[Bertuzzied]

It's pretty simple. You lose to the 2013/2014 Oilers. You get fired.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm not mad at all when we lose. I'm mad by the line combos, the scratching of some players while others seem to all but play their way off the team only to get a promotion to a better line, the way he dosn't stick up for his players or the way he lets some players get beat up and doesn't do anything about it.

I just don't like Harley as a coach, I don't think I ever have.

I'm fine if we lose every game, most expected that anyway. The way we lose the games is what gets to me.

I think hes thinking about a liability issue if he sends Grats over the boards and Ference gets seriously injured, he could be called into court like the Bertuzzi/Crawford situation, I think it needed to be someone on the ice already that answered the bell for him. thats on the players on the team not Hartley. I think the scratchings are due to having higher expectations for higher ceiling players, not everyones held to the same standard. Line combos, got me on that one.