[OOT] Melee between Toronto and Buffalo

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Wolven

^ Beaten to it again.

Also, I am not really arguing whether or not what Kessel did was dangerous, I don't think it matters either. The guy is acting in self defense against a much larger and more dangerous opponent. I say chop away.

How many times? Under what specific circumstances?

Kessel could skate around the rink twelve times before Scott would complete half a lap. Surely fleeing is at least as valid an option as hacking away with his stick.

And how does protecting his safety in any way justify Kessel slashing at Scott while Scott was in the midde of a pile-on? I don't get how anyone can let Kessel off the hook here. There is no reasonable defence for his second slash. Why else would he have gotten a penalty? As incompetent as refs are at times, they called it correctly here.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by valo403

Yep, that's exactly what it's like. Really intelligent rebuttal there.

Like you would actually understand an intelligent rebuttal. The fact of the matter is Kessel could have seriously injured Scott with that swing. Calling it self defense is complete and utter bull#### because it was not self defense, it was a provoked attack, but not self defense.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MattyC

No. Its more like saying its ok to hack that guy who has 9 inches and 100 lbs on you in the leg before he knocks you the f*** out.

I'm not condoning what Kessel did afterwards and would have no problem with a suspension being given to him as well, but some of these comparables are ridiculous.

either one is accepting excessive violence. that was my point.

[Alberta_Beef]

Kessel has been suspended 3 games (the rest of the pre-season)

not enough IMO but better than nothing.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Like you would actually understand an intelligent rebuttal. The fact of the matter is Kessel could have seriously injured Scott with that swing. Calling it self defense is complete and utter bull#### because it was not self defense, it was a provoked attack, but not self defense.

Well if you'd like to try writing one we could give it a shot.

The fact of the matter is that Scott could have seriously injured Kessel had Kessel not defended himself. I don't see the response as excessive, you do, that's great. We disagree. You can leave it at that or you can make another moronic comparison, up to you.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Three games seems about right. I am strangely pleased.

[northcrunk]

Kessel suspended rest of pre-season

[valo403]

Shanahan makes a point of saying that the first slash is in self defense, and that it is the subsequent slashes that drew the suspension.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

either one is accepting excessive violence. that was my point.

Yes but one is in the middle of a game. And one is illegal.

There are a lot of things that go on in a hockey rink that would be considered illegal elsewhere. There would be assault charges left and right just for body checks.

"Your Honor, I, the plantiff, declare that the defendant did seek me out and violently hit me into a wall purely because I had this black disk on me stick..."

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well if you'd like to try writing one we could give it a shot.

The fact of the matter is that Scott could have seriously injured Kessel had Kessel not defended himself. I don't see the response as excessive, you do, that's great. We disagree. You can leave it at that or you can make another moronic comparison, up to you.

no more moronic than you actually saying attacking someone with a weapon is acceptable.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Kessel has been suspended 3 games (the rest of the pre-season)

not enough IMO but better than nothing.

I dont think it's enough either, Kassian got 5 for an accidental slash, kessel is a reapeat offender for slashing from the flyers game and willfully attacked with his stick.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yes but one is in the middle of a game. And one is illegal.

There are a lot of things that go on in a hockey rink that would be considered illegal elsewhere. There would be assault charges left and right just for body checks.

"Your Honor, I, the plantiff, declare that the defendant did seek me out and violently hit me into a wall purely because I had this black disk on me stick..."

in the terms of hockey a 2 handed slash is very much considered illegal, that's why they get suspended, it's hockey's version of jail time.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

no more moronic than you actually saying attacking someone with a weapon is acceptable.

Right, because hockey and domestic violence are great comparables. Keep it up.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

in the terms of hockey a 2 handed slash is very much considered illegal, that's why they get suspended, it's hockey's version of jail time.

I'm not arguing the suspension (I agree that suspending pre-season games is stupid), I'm arguing that slashing John Scott in the hopes it will stop him from pummelling you does not equate to spousal abuse...

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

I dont think it's enough either, Kassian got 5 for an accidental slash, kessel is a reapeat offender for slashing from the flyers game and willfully attacked with his stick.

Kessel has no supplemental discipline history. If he keeps it up, he'll get longer one. Even if he is a skilled player. Especially if he injures someone.

Between this suspension, the Clarkson one, and the fine to Buffalo, I'd say the league got this 100% right. I am surprised and confused.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm not arguing the suspension (I agree that suspending pre-season games is stupid), I'm arguing that slashing John Scott in the hopes it will stop him from pummelling you does not equate to spousal abuse...

That this argument has to be made is mind bottling

[Coach]

Originally Posted by valo403

That this argument has to be made is mind bottling

Haha yes. Now that a definite decision has been made, perhaps this can all be forgotten.

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm not arguing the suspension (I agree that suspending pre-season games is stupid), I'm arguing that slashing John Scott in the hopes it will stop him from pummelling you does not equate to spousal abuse...

And in what world is Kessel the abuser in that analogy?

[theinfinitejar]

It doesn't matter what Scott's intentions were anyway, it's perfectly reasonable for Kessel to think at that moment that Scott's throwing his gloves off because he wants to pound his face into mush.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Spinach

[/B]


How many times? Under what specific circumstances?

Kessel could skate around the rink twelve times before Scott would complete half a lap. Surely fleeing is at least as valid an option as hacking away with his stick.

And how does protecting his safety in any way justify Kessel slashing at Scott while Scott was in the midde of a pile-on? I don't get how anyone can let Kessel off the hook here. There is no reasonable defence for his second slash. Why else would he have gotten a penalty? As incompetent as refs are at times, they called it correctly here.

Lets say Kassian decides to drop his gloves and go after Sven. I would be 100% okay with Sven hitting Kassian with his stick as many times as it takes until Kassian stops trying to fight him. If that means that Kassian ends up looking like Gagner by the end of it then so be it.

I've been in situations where some moron wants to fight me and I have no interest in it. Its not fun, there is usually no room for thinking things through and in the end the best course of action is to escalate your self defense to the point where the guy questions whether or not he should continue his attack.

Kessel has been suspended for the preseason and Buffalo's coach has been fined. Obviously the NHL has acknowledged that the Sabres put Scott out there to fight and Scott's intention was to start another fight right after the conclusion of the last one.

Clarkson is going to appeal his suspension and I think he should be successful in that because of the implications attached to the fine to the Sabres coach.