Because of how much of a project D-men are at the best of times, that's why I have been advocating going with a forward despite the glaring need for a D-man. Spam the other top picks with D-men, and you should be able to find something there. Worst case scenario is make trades like the Smid trade but on a bigger scale to get a top end D-man, sort of like the Johnson Stewart trade.
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Because of how much of a project D-men are at the best of times, that's why I have been advocating going with a forward despite the glaring need for a D-man. Spam the other top picks with D-men, and you should be able to find something there. Worst case scenario is make trades like the Smid trade but on a bigger scale to get a top end D-man, sort of like the Johnson Stewart trade.
Those trades are exceedingly rare and this is the first year in a while that Johnson has looked like a top end D-man.
Those trades are exceedingly rare and this is the first year in a while that Johnson has looked like a top end D-man.
I know, but with the likelihood that we are going to have too many forward prospects and not a ton of D prospects, it makes sense that we should look to a team that has the reverse and try and make a swap.
I would target Buffalo specifically as they have about 9 guys that are equivalent to Sieloff/Wotherspoon or better and that doesn't count their decent nhl D-men like Ehrhoff. If you were to dangle Sven and some other things, I'm sure you could pick off one or two of their guys.
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There's a chance EDM trades the pick before the draft. Could come as early as this trade deadline.
I doubt it, MacT is all talk. They're too scared to even trade a decent player, you think they would trade a 2nd overall? A high draft pick is pretty much an Edmonton Stanley Cup to those fans now.
They'll get almost there, be less than 5 minutes away from winning the cup, give up the tying goal, and then lose it in triple overtime, all on home ice.
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I doubt it, MacT is all talk. They're too scared to even trade a decent player, you think they would trade a 2nd overall? A high draft pick is pretty much an Edmonton Stanley Cup to those fans now.
I think the point would be the deal the pick before the deadline for immediate help and potentially not finish in the bottom 2-3. I dunno if MacT will get offers for the pick near what he values it but I think the onus is on them to show improvement this year. They can't sell the fans that the rebuild is moving forward unless the team shows some improvement, some advancement. They can't finish 2nd last in a year that was supposed to be the year they were supposed to start being competitive.
It's a risky move to move the pick. But MacT really, really needs to make a splash. Eberle and the 1st this year appear to be the most valuable commodities that he could use to move the team forward. Wouldn't surprise me if one of those two was moved by the deadline.
I don't disagree with what you're saying at all FDW, you're totally right, I'm just saying they won't do it. Because right now it is 2nd overall and that's their view on it. "Just one more high draft pick, this time a D-man ... something special, all gonna turn around after just one more high draft pick" is their mantra.
No one's job is in jeopardy up there, Katz got his arena, that's all he cared about it. I'm sure Lowe knows he's safe, and as a result MacT knows he's safe for a couple more years.
Dal Colle, Draisaitl, Bennett are who we should be learning about I think.
Duchene for me. Offensive catalyst, dynamic player, highlight reel most nights.
Hedman while solid doesn't seem to have gamebreaker quality that Duchene has. Hedman's TOI/G is relatively low for an elite dman when compared to others around the league and especially when you consider Tampa's d core looks pretty average on paper.
Imagine a line of Duchene- Stamkos-St.Louis that Tampa could have had.
Again its still early for Hedman, but Duchene has done more for the Avs in his first 4 years than Hedman has done for the Lightning.
There are only 3 teams (Boston, St. Louis & Los Angeles) who have surrendered fewer goals this season than Tampa. On 'paper' their D may look average but they are in elite company in the league. I suspect Hedman might have something to do with that, because at 23 years old he is head-and-shoulders their best defenceman & he's having his best season to date. Hedman has already nearly doubled his season-best tally for goals & he's 4 points off his season-best points total with more than half the season to go. Scary considering he's still a few years from his prime. He's the kind of player that doesn't make the highlight reel but wins you games.
I personally think you're undervaluing the impact of a rock-solid #1 D-man in favour of the flashier & more exciting forward prospects. It ain't a crime, but don't forget that defence wins championships. :cliche:
Having a Hedman-esque stud D prospect in our stable would be just as valuable as having a Duchesne-level offensive dynamo. I'm in the camp that hopes we snag Ekblad this year & McTank for McDavid next season.
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I don't disagree with what you're saying at all FDW, you're totally right, I'm just saying they won't do it. Because right now it is 2nd overall and that's their view on it. "Just one more high draft pick, this time a D-man ... something special, all gonna turn around after just one more high draft pick" is their mantra.
No one's job is in jeopardy up there, Katz got his arena, that's all he cared about it. I'm sure Lowe knows he's safe, and as a result MacT knows he's safe for a couple more years.
I think that mantra is getting old. I think the patience is running thin. I think there's a lot more pressure on MacT and Lowe to improve the team now than you acknowledge. Doesn't matter if their jobs are safe if they are still getting immense pressure to change things for the better. Most of us don't live in EDM but my friends who are Oilers fans think moves have to be made. I don't think anybody is content to just bomb the rest of this season and take the pick.
They HAVE to change the losing culture up there. They HAVE to make it unacceptable to mail it in. You are suggesting they mail it in again and are content to do so. I don't think they can take that stance and I think the fans are sick of picking in the top couple. Nobody believes another #1 or #2 pick will turn things around in EDM. You think they think that, but they don't actually think that.
Intense pressure on their management to make a game changing move. Eberle and the #1 pick are the two chips that make the most sense to have in play. I think they explored moving last year's pick.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 01-07-2014 at 06:01 PM.
I don't think they should just mail it in, but yes I think they're going to, content or not. I think they know they need to make changes, I just think that they overvalue that pick like they overvalue their players and will not move it, even for a piece that would help them now.
The fans are totally fed up, but even on HF a large segment has settled into talking about getting Ekblad. Every move they suggest is small pieces, Gagner, Nick Schultz, maybe Eberle. They don't have the stomach for what it's going to take to fix that mess.
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I don't think they should just mail it in, but yes I think they're going to, content or not. I think they know they need to make changes, I just think that they overvalue that pick like they overvalue their players and will not move it, even for a piece that would help them now.
The fans are totally fed up, but even on HF a large segment has settled into talking about getting Ekblad. Every move they suggest is small pieces, Gagner, Nick Schultz, maybe Eberle. They don't have the stomach for what it's going to take to fix that mess.
Ekblad is a few years away from being able to help that smoldering mess.
Even if they keep the pick and get Ekblad, how long before he can actually make a real difference ( I don't mean just making the team). 3 years if they are lucky? Even Lowe can't survive 3 more years of suck (prove me wrong, Kev!).
The Oilers need help now. That pick could be a pretty great asset to make that happen...and it doesn't break up their precious core that they are so hesitant to move.
One thing to consider about Johnson is the guy is already 25 and just starting to round into form. Would you be willing to wait for 7 years for your 1st overall to develop? The Blues didn't, and I'm not sure a lot of Flames fans would.
That's the thing with defensemen...chances are you're going to have to wait years for that guy to reach his peak, and many fans/GMs/owners don't have that kind of patience, so the player might not even be on your team when he does. The saving grace for the Blues was that they at least traded him for a pretty good set of players...Shatenkirk, Stewart and a pick that turned into Ty Rattie.
But while Blues/Avs fans were waiting for Johnson to develop, guys like Toews and Lucic were busy helping their teams win Stanley Cups.
It's not that different with Hedman. The guy is starting to come along, but it's been 5 years since he was drafted. There are good defensemen to be had...but man, you really have to be patient.
All true. Forwards almost always have more of an impact in their first few seasons as a pro. And that's a big consideration in a cap era.
However, if you aren't willing to draft a stud d-man and give him his 5-6 years to develop, you may never have one on your roster. I don't think we'll see any Charas making it to free agency again (though he's another guy who took 5-6 years to become an impact d-man). And you're not going to get a Hedman, Ekman-Larsson, or Pietrangelo in a trade. Even the E. Johnson deal was a strange one. Sometimes you have to be patient and take the long-term approach.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 01-08-2014 at 10:22 PM.
However, if you aren't willing to draft a stud d-man and give him his 5-6 years to develop, you may never have one on your roster. I don't think we'll see any Charas making it to free agency again (though he's another guy who took 5-6 years to become an impact d-man). And you're not going to get a Hedman, Ekman-Larsson, or Pietrangelo in a trade. Even the E. Johnson deal was a strange one. Sometimes you have to be patient and take the long-term approach.
Personally, I prefer the shotgun approach with Dmen. Draft a lot of them a little lower down in the draft, and see what happens. If you try to be surgical about it, and put all your hope in one guy at the top, you may be disappointed more than you like. I do like that Buffalo has drafted so many good Dmen, and now can be patient to see which ones will pan out instead of having to put all the pressure on one guy.
Ideally you also try to target Dmen in their early 20s when trading, and piggy back onto a few years of development time. That and try to find the Gios and Krugs of the world that weren't even drafted. It seems like almost all the star forwards in this league are drafted very high, but there are quite a few Dmen that achieve success in unorthodox ways (look at the best Dmen in the league and it's quite amazing how many were drafted way below their value, if drafted at all). That's why you need that shotgun! They are a little too unpredictable.
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