BattleStar Galactica - SPOILER WARNING

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

A new David Eick interview at TV Guide . . . . talks of Season 4, the Caprica spinoff and movie.

Battlestar movie is definitely a go and will appear between Season 3 and 4.

Many revelations between now and the end of the season.

Still deciding how many episodes in season 4 and whether or not they'll wrap it up in that season.

Mildly spoilerish but readable.

http://community.tvguide.com/thread....adID=800009378

Cowperson

So let the speculation begin. Who is one of the final 5 cylon models to be revealed? While I haven't seen the last two episodes, I'm guessing Chief Tyrol based on his intuition regarding the Eye of Jupiter. That just came out of no where - he goes wandering off on his own on the algae planet and happens to stumble on the Eye. Plus he thought he was a Cylon at the end of season 2 only to have Cavil tell him he's not

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Now something did feel greatly off in this episode, it was almost as if it was written by someone other then RDM as the characters behaved in almost atypical fashion, and characters who had been evil in the past became outright sympathetic, while characters that had seemed someone noble became utterly cold and ruthless.

I couldn't buy into this either. All of a sudden Adama and Roslin are going
around looking for a fight? Where did this come from? Two characters
who seemed rather sympathetic to the common people and their
plight, now ignore it. They bluffed Baltar with throwing him out an
airlock but are ready to shoot "10 Callie's"?

The story was about lies, and how far some of the characters are
willing to go.

Adama was lying/bluffing about shooting Callie, no way he would
carry through on it. Tyrol wasn't taking the chance.

Baltar was out and out lying about his heritage and having to claw
his way out, etc. He was playing on the fact that Tyrol was looking
to be sympathetic to his book. "Oh, look at me! I'm a poor downtrodden
soul who had to fight his way up!" This gives his book credibility,
once Tyrol tells the story.

Roslin was lying at the end when she implied she was looking to make
changes. The changes will be minimal, just enough to keep Baltar's
book from making sense. "What is he talking about?? There's Aerons
(sp?), Sagittarons, etc, in 'higher' positions!" The positions will be
adjusted so that they never quite reach the top, maintaining the
status quo overall. Give the common man a talking piece (Tyrol)
and they'll go on about their business (and protect yours).

This isn't the first time she's resorted to lying, even in this episode
she blatantly lied to Baltar about intercepting his book, and it not
being published, which caught Baltar off-guard at how well she did it.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The image of Adama and Roslin drinking wine while the chief complained was some really sour imagry to me as well.

That was the idea Show the workers having to put in 16 hour days,
while Adama and Roslin have time to relax. Two seperate classes.

ers

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Wow, suprised no ones writtin in this thread after tonights episode.

Good to finally be back on track in terms of developing the main plot after 4 standalone episodes. Hmmm so any guesses on what the deal with Starbuck fate is??? There's no way she survived that explosion which means, assuming her character hasn't been totally killed off, she's either a cylon or some sort of a non-human deity. Revealing one of the major characters to be a cylon was the big thing at the end of this season, but it just seems too obvious that it's her. Plus they still have 3 episodes to go and (potential spoiler warning) Katee Sackoff is not casted in any of them. So i'm guessing Starbuck is not our cylon and but has some sort of a religious part to play later on when she is "reborn".

Then again, maybe she'll be revealed as another cylon when she returns in season 4...

[CaptainCrunch]

My thoughts

It was nice to get away from the human's bad everyone is flawed story board that they had locked themselves into lately. It was also nice to see that the show hadn't blown thier special effects budget, as the Viper seens were the best I've seen since the show started.

Starbuck jumped back into the forefront, as she went from being a screwup to a full born crazy. But they gave some underlying reasons for her behaviour as her mother a former marine, was basically a horrible mother who eventually sucumbed to cancer after driving her daughter who spent a lifetime trying to please her away.

Leobon made several appearances in her dreams and kept talking about not only her destiny but her fears.

We also saw the repeated use of the symbol that we had seen in the temple and in paintings, and Starbucks desparate attempts to push it away. We saw a huge storm in the shape of the symbol and Starbucks attempt to go into it before pulling away.

In the end Starbuck conquers her fears and flys into it following a Non-existant raider that if you think of it could have been a spirit guide.

Starbuck dies declaring that she's not afraid anymore and Apollo see's her ship explode.

Now there's only one of three ways thats she can come back. Whoops sorry four.

1) She's a cylon and will pop up again as a representation of one of the missing 5.

2) There really was a raider out there, and they picked her up and will use her as a way to bridge the gap to her humanity.

3) She's some sort of diety, and if you flash back to the original 70's series will return in the "Ship of Light"

4) She only returns in flashbacks

Some nice symbolism with the god statue that Adama was going to attach to the front of his ship model. could the statue represent Starbuck?

Looks like we start the Baltar trials next week, and I'm sure that the writers will make sure that we forget about Starbuck's death over the rest of the season so she can make a surprising return next year.

[CaptainCrunch]

As an add on, it does sound as if Katee SAckhoff is pretty much unhappy with the show and this could have been her exit

http://www.thescifiworld.net/intervi...ackhoff_01.htm

Gilles Nuytens: Are you happy with the character developement of Starbuck so far?
Katee Sackhoff: I'm thrilled with my character. However I did feel under used in season 3. I kept getting phone calls from people asking if the producers were mad at me. Trust me at one point my mind went to that assumption.

Gilles Nuytens: Season 3 is very dark, at least from what we have seen so far, do you already know what direction the show is going to take next year?
Katee Sackhoff: I have not given Battlestar a thought for awhile. Focusing on feature work.

Gilles Nuytens: You said in another interview that you would love to play as yourself in "The Office", have you been approached about it since then?
Katee Sackhoff: No. Would still love to. I'm such a fan of the show.

Gilles Nuytens: Kara has been drawing mysterious symbols we can see in "The Eye Of Jupiter", some believe she is the choosen one or even one of the Final Five! What are your feelings about it?
Katee Sackhoff: I'd like to say I have some feelings about it. I love where the writers have taken Kara and I trust they have done what's right and most interesting for the show.

Gilles Nuytens: After 3 seasons, has the show changed your life in any way?
Katee Sackhoff: Not really. I had a guy break into my house and had to move. Does that count. That's a change for the bad though.

Gilles Nuytens: We have seen a very complicated relationship between the "anders-kara-lee-dualla" characters, is that a storyline you enjoyed doing because of all the various 'love triangles'?
Katee Sackhoff: I actually hate the triangle. I think it's ridiculous. I wish she would just be with one of them and call it a day. Haha. But then that wouldn't be dramatic now would it.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

As an add on, it does sound as if Katee SAckhoff is pretty much unhappy with the show and this could have been her exit

Boy that'd really piss alot of fans off. There's no way her character can just be finished like that after all the buildup about her special destiny and whatnot. Not to mention Starbuck is a pretty popular character (for good or for bad). Hopefully she wasn't written off the show, that would leave a big hole in the plot as there are still way too many questions about her character.

She does have a point about being somewhat underused, hadn't seen much of her at all for awhile until the last episode. The writers seem to have wanted to develop some of the secondary characters more in season three though, which means less time for the main ones. I personally didn't (don't) mind it as long as they don't get carried away and try to follow too many people...

[worth]

Yeah, there's no way that shes "dead". They could have just forgot about the backstory and had her die fighting the cylons, but since they put so much effort over so many episodes into the spiral image, there has to be more to the story.

The episode on Sunday was amazing I must say. One of the better ones this year.

[Flashpoint]

I think the show has officially jumped the shark.

I have stayed away from spoilers, previews and this thread, so I had no idea Starbuck's death was coming. It seemed really casual and contrived. It was nice to see her get some screentime, but other than her actual death the rest of the show still felt like obscure filler. Although, I must say I was very impressed by Edward James Olmos' acting at the end.

There's been so many awful side stories (Starbuck and Apollo, Chief and Callie, even Baltar now) that BSG has really gotten away from the core of what I liked about it - the struggle of the human condition, not "Space 90210".

I think that I really might be done with the show.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

I think the show has officially jumped the shark.

I have stayed away from spoilers, previews and this thread, so I had no idea Starbuck's death was coming. It seemed really casual and contrived. It was nice to see her get some screentime, but other than her actual death the rest of the show still felt like obscure filler. Although, I must say I was very impressed by Edward James Olmos' acting at the end.

There's been so many awful side stories (Starbuck and Apollo, Chief and Callie, even Baltar now) that BSG has really gotten away from the core of what I liked about it - the struggle of the human condition, not "Space 90210".

I think that I really might be done with the show.

What's the core of the show you like? Cylons fighting humans in space? That wouldn't take long to jump the shark if they didn't do anything else.
Gotta say I disagree it's jumped the shark. Which is an overused expression nowadays anyway.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Flame On

What's the core of the show you like? Cylons fighting humans in space? That wouldn't take long to jump the shark if they didn't do anything else.
Gotta say I disagree it's jumped the shark. Which is an overused expression nowadays anyway.

Yeah, the expression “jumped the shark” has so jumped the shark.

What I loved about this show was what made it great in the miniseries and the early part of season 1. A story about flawed humans in a threatened situation by a largely faceless (and superior) enemy. The backdrop of sci fi added to the appeal, although one could argue it was so dark and gritty, and closely related to our own society that it wasn’t really science fiction as much as drama in a “parallel world”.

Now the focus seems much more on individual couples relationships - problems with marriage, sleeping around, personal morality. The once minor (and enjoyable) plotline of XO Tigh and his problematic marriage and latent alcoholisim has now spread to almost every major character. The larger backdrop has been lost. The Cylons no longer seem threatening, they have faces, and individuality, and are as human as the humans are. They have names, disagreements, negotiations. The superiority of the humans over the Cylons has been proven. They can be outsmarted, outfought, and eluded at will. The fear of the unknown is gone.


And yeah, I wouldn't mind a couple episodes with some outerspace "bang bang" to go along with all the cuddling we have seen this season.

To bump off a main character in the manner they did…well it just rubbed me the wrong way. Starbuck wasn’t my favorite character or actress, but her death seemed for the convenience of the show rather than as part of moving the plot forward. It appeared pointless to me.

Don’t get me wrong, there have been episodes I liked this season. Just not all that many of them. And most of the ones I enjoyed were on account of liking the characters so much – not because the show was doing anything wonderful or innovative that held my interest like season 1 did. With the removal of one of those characters I forsee declining returns for the rest of this show’s run.

It’s no big deal. It’s only a TV show. I just won’t be making time to watch it like I used to.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

It's certainly gotten a bit more dramatic, which I don't mind. If you look within the story itself, being trapped in space with only 40 000 other people around would probably result in plenty of over-dramatic situations and whatnot. It also ties into developing the secondary characters such as Tyrol and Cally. In terms of writing the episodes themselves, it can't always be specifically about Cylons, fighting and finding earth, etc (as cool as those parts are) or else Battlestar would probably have wrapped itself up by now as they'd be out of ideas.

I'll wait until the end of this season to make any judgments on where the show is going as alot still has to happen in the final three episodes. I certainly am not dissapointed with this season or preparing to jump ship...

[GoinAllTheWay]

No way Starbuck is gone. A few mins before her ship exploded, you see her reach for the ejection handle. With all the flashbacks we saw during the show, especialy the one with the medium, she mentions that the cylon guy she was living with on New Caprica was coming for her.

Don't think that raider she was chasing was in her head either as Lee saw it just before her ship exploded. I'm willing to bet she jumped ship and was picked up by that raider that was probably being flown by her cylon husband from New Caprica.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Yeah, the expression “jumped the shark” has so jumped the shark.

What I loved about this show was what made it great in the miniseries and the early part of season 1. A story about flawed humans in a threatened situation by a largely faceless (and superior) enemy. The backdrop of sci fi added to the appeal, although one could argue it was so dark and gritty, and closely related to our own society that it wasn’t really science fiction as much as drama in a “parallel world”.

Now the focus seems much more on individual couples relationships - problems with marriage, sleeping around, personal morality. The once minor (and enjoyable) plotline of XO Tigh and his problematic marriage and latent alcoholisim has now spread to almost every major character. The larger backdrop has been lost. The Cylons no longer seem threatening, they have faces, and individuality, and are as human as the humans are. They have names, disagreements, negotiations. The superiority of the humans over the Cylons has been proven. They can be outsmarted, outfought, and eluded at will. The fear of the unknown is gone.


And yeah, I wouldn't mind a couple episodes with some outerspace "bang bang" to go along with all the cuddling we have seen this season.

To bump off a main character in the manner they did…well it just rubbed me the wrong way. Starbuck wasn’t my favorite character or actress, but her death seemed for the convenience of the show rather than as part of moving the plot forward. It appeared pointless to me.

Don’t get me wrong, there have been episodes I liked this season. Just not all that many of them. And most of the ones I enjoyed were on account of liking the characters so much – not because the show was doing anything wonderful or innovative that held my interest like season 1 did. With the removal of one of those characters I forsee declining returns for the rest of this show’s run.

It’s no big deal. It’s only a TV show. I just won’t be making time to watch it like I used to.

Good points and I see what you mean. But I guess these sorts of filler episodes are bound to come in any series. And if you ask me the filler in these has been better than a lot of other filler shows like say ST:TNG.
I could do with getting back to bang bang now to be frank; and actually I think it'll come.

[Cowperson]

Finally saw the episode last night . . . . .

I think the last scene of the last episode of this season - the cliffhanger - will probably have Starbuck waking up in a tub full of goo!!!

She's a Cylon for sure.

Great special effects in the episode.

Sidebar interesting that, in the interview posted above, Sackoff describes the actor who plays Leoben as "the most intriguing man I've ever met."

Cowperson

[Flame On]

Here's a link to an interview with Katie Sackoff. TV Guide.
Scroll down in the video player until you see the TB Guide Magazine photoshoot film and play it.
That has to be one of those times when someone tries to deny something by joking about the exact thing that actually does happen. IF anyone sees what I mean.

[Cowperson]

A surprising appearance by Ron D. Moore on the Sci-Fi Battlestar board:

The Next Twenty Questions, I'll answer the FIRST twenty.

Go.

http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?sh...c=2267113&st=0

His answers start on the second page.

Interesting answer to this question given our recent discussion on "when" does BSG take place relative to Earth history:

Have you decided whether BSG takes place in our past, our present, or our future? I'm not looking for an answer as to which, just whether that decision has been made, or if it's even required yet.

Have you decided whether BSG takes place in our past, our present, or our future? I'm not looking for an answer as to which, just whether that decision has been made, or if it's even required yet.

I have decided the "when" of BSG, but I'm not giving that away yet.

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

Great episode last night, they pretty much put Starbuck to bed when they pinned her picture to the wall and moved on to the trial of Baltar.

The actor playing the defense lawyer did a supreme job, and he's a character with a certain edge to him that makes him interesting, but also like chewing tinfoil at the same time.

Its pretty clear that this is going to be a trial where justice is secondary to both revenge and the subversion of the shaky legal system.

I keep thinking that this is going to lead the way to Apollo resigning his commission since its apparent that he and his father are on a way to a falling out over this trial.

I actually understood where the deck chief was coming from when he said he couldn't stop trying to kill the lawyers.

Extrememly well done episode.

[Cowperson]

In terms of plot, I think Adama, Apollo and Sam have put Starbuck behind them . . . . . but I highly doubt that's the last we'll ever see of her in Battlestar and what lies in the future.

The lawyer seemed overdone at the start but by the end it was evident it was a deliberate strategy on his part . . . . pretty smarmy guy. The note to Baltar at the end about splitting a son from the father was clever.

Loved Baltar's twitching paranoia.

Particularly loved the scene with Six and the lawyer . . . . very well done.

Getting tired of Apollo and his father hating/loving/hating/loving . . . . of course, its now been years in their lives.

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

In terms of plot, I think Adama, Apollo and Sam have put Starbuck behind them . . . . . but I highly doubt that's the last we'll ever see of her in Battlestar and what lies in the future.

The lawyer seemed overdone at the start but by the end it was evident it was a deliberate strategy on his part . . . . pretty smarmy guy. The note to Baltar at the end about splitting a son from the father was clever.

Loved Baltar's twitching paranoia.

Particularly loved the scene with Six and the lawyer . . . . very well done.

Getting tired of Apollo and his father hating/loving/hating/loving . . . . of course, its now been years in their lives.

Cowperson

I'd love to see Starbuck back, and part of me thinks that Katee's interviews are an elaberate internet smoke screen, and that she shows up in the last scene of the season naked in a tub of warm jello.

I have to admit I missed the conversation between six and Starbuck as my gf called me out of the room, when I came back the President was saying that she felt her world had ended. What was said?

I'm not a big fan of a twitchy Baltar, it seems so cliched, I would prefer to see a strong Baltar looking his judgement in the eye, instead of falling apart under pressure.

Has Lee ever truly forgiven his old man, or have they put so many patches over thier relationship that either knows how they feel about the other, and keep circling around an endless center of loss.

[Cowperson]

New York Newsday with a lengthy review of the two-part season finale (which starts this Sunday).

Spoilers are hinted at . . . . .

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment...sion-headlines

Cowperson