Justin Trudeau says marijuana should be legalized

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Sled

I disagree with the argument of "if they legalize it then all back records of convictions should be expunged". When the felony was committed it was illegal, period.

It's not like when they raise the speed limit on a road they go back two years and reimburse (expunge) everyone who got a speeding ticket along that stretch of the road.

You choose to break the law and those were the consequences. At the very least it will be treated as even more of a misdemeanor then it would be if the choose not to legalize it.

That seems pretty cruel and unreasonable.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by blankall

Legalizing marijuana will have very little impact on organized crime, particularly the large violent groups. They make most of their money off prostitution and harder drugs.

In BC, we've got a de facto legal marijuana system, with the dispensaries. It hasn't affected organized crime in any way. A lot of the dispensaries and their suppliers are actually former illegal producers/growers who've gone legit. Now that they're allowed to operate legally, they're just making a lot more money.

When you legalize a drug like marijuana, which requires a fair amount of experience, knowledge, and infrastructure to produce, the people who already have experience with it are the most likely to profit from the legalization. The same thing happened with alcohol post-prohibition. The former boot leggers weren't punished. Instead, they became billionaires, as they had a jump into the marketplace.

By legalizing marijuana, you might be turning some criminals legit, but you're not going to punish them or eliminate the organized crime infrastructure around them.

Yeah you raise some good points. But what I'm looking at is those bootleggers, who as you said, had to legitimize and enter the market, and end up filthy rich because of it, but so does the state with taxes. And not only that, you now have a legit business that can create legit jobs that are also subject to taxes.

It doesn't wipe out the drug trade, because you still have different drugs available illegally, but it DOES for marijuana, just like it did for beer and everything else. That doesn't mean that the moonshiners don't exist, but there's a huge chunk of their market gone. So those producers can either go legit with the product they already have, or keep being criminals and venture into/focus on other things. You're not going to eliminate crime, that has never been asserted. But if you can significantly reduce it, while significantly reduce the police resources being used against, and at the same time profit from it, it just makes economic sense.

Originally Posted by GGG

In the harder drugs side I disagree that legalization would increase use.

If I ask people here why don't you smoke crack the answer isn't because its illegal.

For the softer drugs legalization will result in increased useage because there is definitely a segment of the population that doesn't use because of the illegality.

Yeah I meant increased weed use. No doubt the people who want hard drugs, and can afford them, are doing them already. No one is not doing crack because it's illegal. Just like no one who doesn't smoke weed isn't doing it because they've never been exposed to it or had the opportunity to buy, it's because they've made a personal choice not to do it for whatever reason. Availability is there for all this stuff, how to best try and control it, while helping addicts and trying to gain monetary benefits from it is what we should be focusing on, not how to eliminate it. You won't. Ever.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That seems pretty cruel and unreasonable.

Agreed, it also seems like he is comparing two totally different incidents of breaking the law.



Speeding ticket vs Jail time.


Yeah on the scales of justice those balance out.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Sled

I disagree with the argument of "if they legalize it then all back records of convictions should be expunged". When the felony was committed it was illegal, period.

It's not like when they raise the speed limit on a road they go back two years and reimburse (expunge) everyone who got a speeding ticket along that stretch of the road.

You choose to break the law and those were the consequences. At the very least it will be treated as even more of a misdemeanor then it would be if the choose not to legalize it.

So how about say when being a homosexual was illegal in the UK, anyone locked up under that law should have remained so when human decency finally prevailed?

[polak]

Originally Posted by blankall

Legalizing marijuana will have very little impact on organized crime, particularly the large violent groups. They make most of their money off prostitution and harder drugs.

In BC, we've got a de facto legal marijuana system, with the dispensaries. It hasn't affected organized crime in any way. A lot of the dispensaries and their suppliers are actually former illegal producers/growers who've gone legit. Now that they're allowed to operate legally, they're just making a lot more money.

When you legalize a drug like marijuana, which requires a fair amount of experience, knowledge, and infrastructure to produce, the people who already have experience with it are the most likely to profit from the legalization. The same thing happened with alcohol post-prohibition. The former boot leggers weren't punished. Instead, they became billionaires, as they had a jump into the marketplace.

By legalizing marijuana, you might be turning some criminals legit, but you're not going to punish them or eliminate the organized crime infrastructure around them.

It doesn't matter if it wipes them out. They will lose 99% of any money they were making in Canada from weed. Just like that. That's not a small hit.

[Drak]

Comparing speeding tickets to a possession criminal record is a false equivalency. One is a ticketed offense, one is a criminal record that has an everlasting impact on life - applying for jobs, insurance, relationships, etc.

[FlamesAddiction]

Anyone currently in jail for possession should be let out of jail immediately, no question. The people with records should be pardoned.

For trafficking and large scale growing, I am not sure. I am kind of on the fence.

[peter12]

I don't know if comparing pot smokers to homosexuals is morally valid.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by peter12

I don't know if comparing pot smokers to homosexuals is morally valid.

The comparison of speeding tickets to jail terms was the thin edge of the wedge that lead down the slippery slope.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Understandable, I had reservations at first but the more I thought about it the less I was worried. What can the RCMP do?

I love the one store. If a friend signs up and uses you as a referral('reefer a friend' they call it) I get a $10 dollar credit, which I've had 3 already. Also toonie Tuesdays.

Fair enough. Maybe I'm just paranoid? Better lay off the weed for a bit...

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by peter12

I don't know if comparing pot smokers to homosexuals is morally valid.

Both actions were illegal only because bureaucrats said so, not because they posed any threat or harm to society. You cannot keep people locked up after you've decided the law that put them there is unjust

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Both actions were illegal only because bureaucrats said so, not because they posed any threat or harm to society. You cannot keep people locked up after you've decided the law that put them there is unjust

Yeah. I guess if you want to look at it like that. I mean, one is supposedly a highly inheritable orientation where self-denial leads to depression, and suicide. The other is smoking a substance that makes you high and hungry. But totally the same thing.

This position leads me to think that we should keep marijuana illegal just to further exacerbate pot-smokers' martyr complex.

[FlamesAddiction]

I can't find anything about Canada, but in the U.S. where it became illegal, I am pretty sure that people in jail had to serve their sentences. I think some people are suing individually for their release. Not sure how that is working out.

[TomLeeMC]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So all I have to do is, chuck some crushed grapes, sugar and yeast into a tub, right?

I'm not sure what this has to do with growing marijuana but I agree with Fuzz. Sure it's not set it and forget it but anyone with a slight knowledge in gardening would be able to easily grow for personal use. Ever grown Tomatoes? Supposedly very similar.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

So how about say when being a homosexual was illegal in the UK, anyone locked up under that law should have remained so when human decency finally prevailed?

In the U.S., they used to have anti-sodomy laws (which also included oral sex between heterosexuals). When the law was repealed, the people in jail still had to serve out their sentences.

Maybe a better example.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by TomLeeMC

I'm not sure what this has to do with growing marijuana but I agree with Fuzz. Sure it's not set it and forget it but anyone with a slight knowledge in gardening would be able to easily grow for personal use. Ever grown Tomatoes? Supposedly very similar.

The point is anything can be stripped down to look simple, when it might be.

[MolsonInBothHands]

What happened to people serving time for related crimes when alcohol prohibition was lifted?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So all I have to do is, chuck some crushed grapes, sugar and yeast into a tub, right?

If you are just looking to get drunk, then ya, pretty much. Plus the waiting. Oh the tedious waiting....

[OBCT]

I'm totally on board with governments legalizing marijuana even for recreational use, at least theoretically.

I do have a few questions/caveats:
- I believe possession should be age-restricted; same as alcohol or tobacco? younger?
- I believe some practical limits should be placed on the operation of motorized vehicles while under significant influence of marijuana; how does one enforce such regulations?
- I am slightly concerned that "big business" will get their greedy paws all over this and eventually turn it into something akin to Big Tobacco.

IMO, this stuff should be highly regulated for purity, and taxed to heck. In which case, I'd possibly also support the legalization of some harder drugs, given similar stipulations, as well.

Medicinal "street drugs" are a bit of a different discussion, but again I would generally strongly support their inclusion as prescription drugs given strict regulatory oversight for purity and approved-use conditions based on the best available research.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Both actions were illegal only because bureaucrats said so, not because they posed any threat or harm to society. You cannot keep people locked up after you've decided the law that put them there is unjust

Possession for personal use without intent to distribute but if you sold drugs or traffic larged quanities you certainly were part of a network of crime that caused harm.

So there definitely is a line where you were a user of a relatively harmless substance and you were a dealer selling unknown product to kids.