[Rumour] Dowbiggin is reporting a new head of hockey ops

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

Sorry, couldn't let this pass. How do you figure that Calgary, which consistently ranks as one of the most livable cities in the world year after year, is less desirable to live and work in than at least 21 other NHL cities? I could probably name only 3-5 cities that have an NHL team that in my opinion would be more desirable to both love and work and be able to comfortable raise a family in.

Go ahead and name them.

Keep in mind we're not talking about a good place for a middle-class person to find work and raise a family; we're talking about a good place for a wealthy person who already has a very well-paying job to move to and raise a family. Two very different things. Someone taking a job as a top executive will care about private schools, high-end restaurants, top colleges, and world class shopping rather than public education, public transportation, and big-box shopping malls. You or I might worry at finding an affordable, safe place to live and send kids to school in Washington D.C. Someone paid like an NHL executive wouldn't have those concerns.


Here are mine:

San Jose - There's a reason it's the Bay area attracts some of the smartest and best-paid people in the world.

LA - Climate. Lots of stuff for rich people to do.

Anaheim - A notch down from LA, but still, it's Southern California.

Vancouver - Beautiful. Again, lots of people with money move there for a reason.

New York - It's New York.

Boston, Philly - Close enough to New York. Hub of transportation. Tradition. Great stuff for people who like cities.

Detroit - Great reputation as an organization. Also, rich people never go near the poor parts, and in fact some of the richest neighbourhoods (and by neighbourhoods I mean self-sufficient counties that are 30 miles from downtown Detroit) in the USA are in the Detroit region.

Chicago - See New York.

Miami, Tampa, Charlotte - Great climate. Almost a year-round holiday.

St. Louis - Seems weird, but one of the most desirable locations for NHLers. Nice climate, the area where the NHLers live is supposed to be beautiful, a genuine NHL city where it's also possible to be kind of anonymous.

Pittsburgh - Much like St. Louis, its charms are not widely recognized but NHLers love living there.

Toronto - Centre of the hockey universe and home of family and friends for the 25 per cent or so of NHLers (and much higher in the executive ranks) who are from Ontario.

Those are the cities that are more attractive. Then there are some that are about on par with Calgary: Denver, Dallas, St. Paul, Nashville, Washington, Ottawa. The only NHL cities that are almost certainly less attractive than Calgary for NHL execs are Edmonton, Winnipeg, Phoenix (only because of the ownership uncertainty), Montreal (taxes and language issues), Long Island, and maybe Buffalo.

Keep in mind, many guys in the NHL marry American women. Americans aren't known for their enthusiasm for moving out of country - I doubt the attitude of Pronger's wife is uncommon. And the 80 per cent of North Americans who grow up without experiencing real cold winters balk the very idea, and only move to places like Calgary because it pays a lot more than most cities with nicer climates. That wouldn't be the case for an NHL exec.

Even for Canadian spouses there's the family issue. Things have changed in the last couple decades - people who have a choice aren't as enthusiastic about taking their kids out of school or away from grandparents unless there's a significant payoff in money. Well-heeled parents today are even reluctant to move too far away from their college-aged kids, which is an important consideration for NHL executives who typically fall in the 45 to 60 age range. It's one thing to make frequent trips to Penn State when you live in Nashville or Chicago. Another thing entirely when you live in Calgary.

Anyway, no need to take my word for it - in a Hockey New polls a few years ago, Calgary was two-thirds of the way down the list of most attractive cities for NHL players. And that was when the Flames were in the mix at the top of the conference.

[PeteLFan]

Lol Detroit. Great organization, I don't think many people want to touch that city other then hockey b

[Erick Estrada]

When you are talking about the money and opportunity of overseeing an NHL franchise I really can't see moving out west being a big obstacle. Unless she has a career job in their established location (doubtful given how many times her husband has moved around in the past decade, any wife that would put herself first and deny her husband the opportunity of a lifetime isn't a great wife in my books.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

Lol Detroit. Great organization, I don't think many people want to touch that city other then hockey b

I have a pharmacist buddy that works at Wallgreens in Seattle and he told me that the company offered them a house and a BMW to transfer to Detroit. They didn't accept of course just goes to show that Detroit isn't a place to be.

[PeteLFan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When you are talking about the money and opportunity of overseeing an NHL franchise I really can't see moving out west being a big obstacle. Unless she has a career job in their established location (doubtful given how many times her husband has moved around in the past decade, any wife that would put herself first and deny her husband the opportunity of a lifetime isn't a great wife in my books.

Sometimes it isn't as easy as that.

Read about Jim nill and his wife battling cancer. We don't always know what's going on in someone's life.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

Sometimes it isn't as easy as that.

Read about Jim nill and his wife battling cancer. We don't always know what's going on in someone's life.

Well yes but I'm under that assumption that Shanahan wouldn't even be entertaining this if his family had a major illness going on.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

Lol Detroit. Great organization, I don't think many people want to touch that city other then hockey b

I'll repeat, some of the richest counties in the USA are in the Detroit region. American cities aren't single coherent entities like Canadian cities. They're made up of many independent counties, and people who live in the rich counties never have any contact whatsoever with the poor ones.

Take Upper Mount Royal. Move it to the location of Airdrie. Multiply its population x20. Add world class restuarants, gyms, shopping, and schools. Now, do you think the people who live there would care if Calgary East of Deerfoot and South of Glenmore was a wasteland slum?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I find it odd when posters talk about Feaster being an adequate gm, the only thing they seem to compare him to is a a former GM that got fired.

How about we compare Feaster to the other 29 GM's working in the NHl today and not a Gm that was not only fired, but looks like he was not offered another GM role after being fired.

Exactly. The question shouldn't be "is he the worst GM in the league/Flames history" ... the question should be, "is he one of the top 30 GM's/potential GM's in the league?" or "is there someone out there you can hire that who is a better GM then Feaster?"

If the Flames want to be one of the top teams in the NHL, they need to start by getting the best staff possible, and most importantly, one of the top GM's in the NHL. Now ask yourself honestly, is Jay Feaster one of the top hockey minds in the NHL?

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Well one thing with Shanahan to me is that he has always been a guy who thought beyond his own job as a player in his playing days. He was on the competition committee, held his own summitt back in the 04 lockout on how to improve the game. At the least he's from outside the organization, and has been involved in winning at the NHL level. I think he would be a guy who could stand up to his owner if he felt he was meddling too much.

The Flames are not the most appealing job in the league these days. So the established people have other options. As a result they need to find the people who can become the next high level executives. At the least I think Shanahan could make a positive impact on the culture of the team.

Exactly. To expand on the first reply above, Shananhan is a guy who gets involved in a lot of these things. And he has a ton of connections, the networks and has worked directly with ALL the best minds in the NHL. If there is a Assist GM that he see's potential from his day-to-day interaction, we can start to bring in those guys into the organization. Right now, our best hockey mind is Craig Conroy.

[Erick Estrada]

Anyone else relieved that Doug MacLean's name hasn't come up in the rumours? I'm sure he would be interested but I would rather the status quo.

[Tinordi]

I'd put Montreal ahead of Calgary for sure even with taxes.

It's Montreal, a fantastic city to live in.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Anyone else relieved that Doug MacLean's name hasn't come up in the rumours? I'm sure he would be interested but I would rather the status quo.

Dear god, no. Anybody but him.

[MissTeeks]

Here is an article from Roger:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/m...in-the-flames/

The question really isn’t, “do the Calgary Flames want Brendan Shanahan as their president of hockey operations?”
The greater question is, "does Shanahan want the Flames?"
What I’m saying is get it done.
That’s not as much a ringing endorsement of Shanahan, as much as recognition that the Flames need a change.
The sighting of Shanahan in Calgary on Friday confirmed Hockey Central insider John Shannon’s suggestion that the NHL’s chief player disciplinarian was in the mix.
Former Dallas Stars general manager Joe Nieuwendyk was also rumoured, but I’ve since found out Nieuwendyk was never contacted.

King is tough, demanding and, some Flames staffers have suggested, very controlling. He’s also very savvy in displaying his public image. Yet, he has done what the owners have paid him to do; make the Flames financially strong. On the ice and in hockey operations, however, Calgary is a work in progress.
In the assessment of some, it’s much worse than that. King’s business ability speaks for itself. However, this is NHL hockey and an infusion of knowledge and contacts couldn’t hurt.

So, with that in mind, what of Brendan Shanahan?
Obviously, he is up to date with today’s NHL. According to people close to Shanahan, he has a strong desire to be in team management. He’s also close to the Flames’ most prominent owner, Murray Edwards.
It would seem to be a good fit. Would it make general manager Jay Feaster and head coach Bob Hartley a little uncomfortable? You bet.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When you are talking about the money and opportunity of overseeing an NHL franchise I really can't see moving out west being a big obstacle. Unless she has a career job in their established location (doubtful given how many times her husband has moved around in the past decade, any wife that would put herself first and deny her husband the opportunity of a lifetime isn't a great wife in my books.

Shanahan lives in Cape Cod during the off-season. His wife is American. His kids are in high school. This sort of thing is an issue, whether fans think it should be or not.

You could turn it around and say "any father that would put his career first and tear his children away from school and friends isn't a great father in my books."

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I'd put Montreal ahead of Calgary for sure even with taxes.

It's Montreal, a fantastic city to live in.

It is. But as we saw with the Eric Cole situation, the language issue can be a problem for some families.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Shanahan lives in Cape Cod during the off-season. His wife is American. His kids are in high school.

Why/how do you know all this?

Honest question.

[Tinordi]

He's Cliff Fletcher, he knows everybody.

[iamca]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It is. But as we saw with the Eric Cole situation, the language issue can be a problem for some families.

For a frame of reference where do you live or have lived before?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

Lol Detroit. Great organization, I don't think many people want to touch that city other then hockey b

Yeah, the players dont actually live in Detroit, they live in the suburbs and commute. They probably dont have much to do with Detroit outside of the Joe Louis arena.

[Stay Golden]

Ken King Prior hockey experience to being with the Flames

Born and raised in Hanley, Saskatchewan, King launched a 30-year career in the newspaper business that included senior executive positions in Canada’s leading newspapers including President and Publisher of the Calgary Sun and Calgary Herald. During his newspaper career in Calgary, King was acknowledged for his innovative marketing, establishment of healthy corporate relationships, spirited community leadership and appreciable growth for the newspapers.

Brendan Shanahan

Brendan Frederick "Shanny" Shanahan (born January 23, 1969) is the National Hockey League's Vice President of Hockey and Business Development and Director of Player Safety. Originally drafted by the New Jersey Devils second overall in the 1987 NHL Entry Draft, Shanahan played with the St. Louis Blues, Hartford Whalers, Detroit Red Wings, New York Rangers, and New Jersey Devils, winning three Stanley Cup championships with the Red Wings. With his physical play and goal scoring ability, Shanahan scored 656 goals in his NHL career spanning over 1,500 NHL games and, at the time of his retirement, was the leader among active NHL players for goals scored. Shanahan is the only player in NHL history with over 600 goals and 2,000 penalty minutes.
Competing for Team Canada internationally, Shanahan won a gold medal at the 1994 World Championships, 2002 Winter Olympics, and a 1991 Canada Cup championship. Having won what are considered the three most prominent team titles in ice hockey, an Olympic gold medal, a World Championship and a Stanley Cup, Shanahan is a member of the elite Triple Gold Club.[1] Shanahan currently works in the NHL office as the league's vice president of hockey and business operations.

Colin John Campbell (born January 28, 1953 in London, Ontario), nicknamed "Sheriff", is a former professional ice hockey defenceman, coach and the former Senior Vice President and current Executive Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations for the National Hockey League.[1] Campbell was replaced as Senior Vice President by Brendan Shanahan, after he stepped down on June 1, 2011.

Campbell spent his junior career with the Peterborough Petes of the Ontario Hockey Association (later the Ontario Hockey League). He was taken in the second round of the 1973 NHL Amateur Draft, 27th overall by the Pittsburgh Penguins, and also in the first round of the 1973 WHA Amateur Draft, 5th overall, by the Vancouver Blazers. After one season with the Blazers, Campbell signed on with Pittsburgh.
Campbell went on to play for the Penguins, Edmonton Oilers, Vancouver Canucks, and Detroit Red Wings. A scrappy, physical defender, Campbell scored just 25 goals in 11 NHL seasons while accumulating almost 1300 penalty minutes. However, he had a knack for scoring key goals in the playoffs, scoring the series-clinching goal in Pittsburgh's first-round win over the St. Louis Blues in 1975, and posting a two-goal game for the Canucks in a win against the Los Angeles Kings en route to the Stanley Cup Finals in 1982 (he scored just 1 goal in two full regular seasons for the Canucks).
In his 11-year NHL career, Campbell appeared in 636 NHL games, posting 25 goals and 103 assists for 128 points, along with 1292 penalty minutes. He also played 78 games in the WHA, recording 3 goals and 23 points along with 191 PIM.


Immediately following his retirement in 1985, Campbell joined the Red Wings coaching staff under head coach Jacques Demers. During the 1988 Stanley Cup Playoffs, Campbell and assistant general manager Neil Smith discovered several Red Wings players, including Bob Probert and Petr Klima, out past curfew.[3] The incident occurred at a suburban Edmonton bar called "Goose Loonies", and led to an apology being issued by Demers.[4] Campbell left the Red Wings after the dismissal of Demers in 1990.
Campbell then joined the New York Rangers as an associate coach for 1991-92, parts of 1992-93, and 1993-94. He was the head coach for the Rangers' top affiliate; the Binghamton Rangers of the American Hockey League for half of the 1992-93 season.


After head coach Mike Keenan left the Rangers after their Stanley Cup win in 1994, Campbell was promoted to take over for him. In the strike-shortened NHL season that followed, Campbell led the Rangers to a fourth place finish in the Atlantic Division. That was good enough to get the Rangers into the playoffs as the eighth seed, where they faced the top-seeded Quebec Nordiques in the first round. The Rangers won the series in six games and handed the franchise its final series defeat in Quebec. The Rangers faced the Philadelphia Flyers in the second round and were promptly swept out of the playoffs.
Campbell led the Rangers back to the playoffs in 1995-96, as the team finished second behind the Flyers in the division. They then defeated the Montreal Canadiens in the opening series in six games after losing the first two but fell to the Pittsburgh Penguins in five games in the conference semifinals.
In 1996-97 Campbell's Rangers had their best and longest playoff run. Finishing fourth in their division but fifth in the conference, the Rangers knocked out the defending conference champion Florida Panthers in five games in the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals. They then upset their divisional rivals, the New Jersey Devils, in five games to advance to play the Flyers in the Eastern Conference Finals, where their run ended in five games.
After losing captain Mark Messier to free agency in the offseason and being spurned by Joe Sakic in their quest to bring him to the team, Campbell's Rangers struggled out of the gate the next season and he was fired as coach after 57 games. The Rangers would not make the playoffs that season, nor would they again until the 2005-06 season under head coach Tom Renney.


Shortly after being fired by the Rangers, Campbell was hired by the NHL as the league's Senior Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations, taking over from the departed Brian Burke.

It is pretty clear who is more impressive to be the President of Hockey Operations for any NHL team over Ken King.

King no longer being in this position with the Flames would be a huge step in the right direction and bringing in Shanahan or Campbell.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You could turn it around and say "any father that would put his career first and tear his children away from school and friends isn't a great father in my books."

I'm sure I can't be the only person that didn't see people come and go through their high school years. It's part of life just as houses are starting to go up for sale all around the city at the end of the school year as families move. I'm sure it's is something the family takes into consideration but is sounds like Shanahan wants a change and I don't believe this to be a stumbling block and this is simply the media throwing this out there because "why would anyone out east ever want to come out west right?".