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Old 03-13-2011, 10:16 AM   #361
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this picture makes me wonder why they ever built a city here in the first place. to me it looks like this has happened before, and is exactly why the trees are carved out to begin with. it actually makes me think this is more of a normal thing the earth does vs. global warning causing all these problems as some claim.
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Not at all, as I've said, I would rather start with LA over any of the other WC playoff teams. Bunch of underachievers who look good on paper but don't even deserve to be in the playoffs.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:28 AM   #362
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Skyscrapers in NA sway as well. Perhaps not as much as Japan, but all buildings do. You are correct, they are designed to do so.
We design more for sway caused by wind don't we? I suppose in earthquake areas they will install dampers however I'm not sure how widespread that is, especially in Vancouver and area. I'm sure if there wasn't already there will be a 5th Estate or W5 story in the works about how a quake similar to the Japanese quake would obliterate a NA city.

Dampers at work
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:30 AM   #363
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it actually makes me think this is more of a normal thing the earth does vs. global warning causing all these problems as some claim.
Ummm...sorry, what? You know of people who have connected earthquakes to global warming?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:33 AM   #364
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So looks like Gadhaffi's WMD depth charge plan worked out after all. You'll note the international media doesn't seem to care about Libya anymore, amirite?
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:35 AM   #365
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Ummm...sorry, what? You know of people who have connected earthquakes to global warming?
not personally but i have seen it suggested on different news stations but different people. honestly it seems like everyone just blames everything on it. your cat died...global warming. your car won't start...global warming.
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Not at all, as I've said, I would rather start with LA over any of the other WC playoff teams. Bunch of underachievers who look good on paper but don't even deserve to be in the playoffs.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:41 AM   #366
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We design more for sway caused by wind don't we? I suppose in earthquake areas they will install dampers however I'm not sure how widespread that is, especially in Vancouver and area. I'm sure if there wasn't already there will be a 5th Estate or W5 story in the works about how a quake similar to the Japanese quake would obliterate a NA city.

Dampers at work
I'm not positive, I don't have any experience in the matter. I would think Vancouver buildings would have been built around a system that allows them to experience earthquakes since their basically right on a fault line.

Very cool video.

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So looks like Gadhaffi's WMD depth charge plan worked out after all. You'll note the international media doesn't seem to care about Libya anymore, amirite?
Depends who you watch. Al Jazeera has Japan as their top story, but always follow it up with the ongoing Middle East Turmoil.

They've been showing video and reports from Lebanon, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen and of course Libya.
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:57 AM   #367
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Some more info for those in Japan. Might be helpful.

http://nip0.wordpress.com/english/
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:17 AM   #368
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not personally but i have seen it suggested on different news stations but different people. honestly it seems like everyone just blames everything on it. your cat died...global warming. your car won't start...global warming.
Some news outlets blamed the Haiti earthquake on global warming. The alarmists are discrediting themselves..

Anyways, a scientist named Piers Corby (Meteorologist, astrophysicist, consultant, and owner of the business Weather Action) says that earthquakes can be triggered, or made more severe by astrophysical phenomena such as solar flares.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVOnML1jtE

Piers says "The massive Japan Earthquake and Tsunami were triggered by massive events on the Sun and there are more to come in the next two years"

"The Earthquake was preceded by an X class solar flare and a significant hit of the Earth by a Coronal Mass Ejection - reported by nasa -

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/su...11-xclass.html

"We warned after the New Zealand Earthquake on 21 Feb that the solar-lunar scene is set for more Earthquakes for the next two years:

"Many of these Earthquake events, as well as weather events, will be very extreme."

"Just to be clear in case the usual fools and charlatans make claims the weather and earthquake events that have come and are coming are absolutely nothing to do with CO2 or so called man-made climate change in any way whatsoever and such talk diverts attention from where it is needed and holds back the advancement of science".
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:18 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by HOOT View Post

this picture makes me wonder why they ever built a city here in the first place. to me it looks like this has happened before, and is exactly why the trees are carved out to begin with. it actually makes me think this is more of a normal thing the earth does vs. global warning causing all these problems as some claim.
People just want to enjoy life and live by the ocean. It also looks to be a port where people make their living, fishing etc....

People don't think about disasters, they live day by day. And if they die they die. I know it sounds morbid.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:43 AM   #370
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People just want to enjoy life and live by the ocean. It also looks to be a port where people make their living, fishing etc....

People don't think about disasters, they live day by day. And if they die they die. I know it sounds morbid.
What "people" are you referring to? The Japenese people? Because if you are, you're dead wrong. The Japenese plan for disasters (mainly earthquake) all the time and probably think about them everyday. They all have little disaster packs they consistantly refill and keep fresh, they have earthquake drills in schools, office buildings and even private residence highrises (a few anyway). Most Japanese knew that another big quake was inevitable and were just waiting to see where and when it would hit. The big reason there hasnt been alot more death and destrcution (given the size of the quake and the ensuing Tsunami, they're very lucky) is the planning and thought that has gone into potential disaster situations.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:58 AM   #371
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You're thinking more government preparation and overall technical/engineering macro level. My "people" is the fisherman living by the sea, risking his life every day to make the next fish sale. Hoot was asking why there's a city there and why people live there. They love the ocean.

It's like living in Tofino on Vancouver Island. Why is there a place like that there? It could get swallowed up tomorrow and governments have to prepare for that.. but for the people living there, I don't think they're concerned about it.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:18 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck View Post
Some news outlets blamed the Haiti earthquake on global warming. The alarmists are discrediting themselves..

Anyways, a scientist named Piers Corby (Meteorologist, astrophysicist, consultant, and owner of the business Weather Action) says that earthquakes can be triggered, or made more severe by astrophysical phenomena such as solar flares.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVOnML1jtE

Piers says "The massive Japan Earthquake and Tsunami were triggered by massive events on the Sun and there are more to come in the next two years"

"The Earthquake was preceded by an X class solar flare and a significant hit of the Earth by a Coronal Mass Ejection - reported by nasa -

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/su...11-xclass.html

"We warned after the New Zealand Earthquake on 21 Feb that the solar-lunar scene is set for more Earthquakes for the next two years:

"Many of these Earthquake events, as well as weather events, will be very extreme."

"Just to be clear in case the usual fools and charlatans make claims the weather and earthquake events that have come and are coming are absolutely nothing to do with CO2 or so called man-made climate change in any way whatsoever and such talk diverts attention from where it is needed and holds back the advancement of science".
Linking earthquakes to solar flares is no less wishful thinking than linking them to global warming. Piers Corbyn is as much of a kook as those he tries to discredit. He believes he has an all-knowing system that can predict weather months in advance -- not days, but months. He refuses to reveal his "secret formula," but continues to claim it is all knowing.

Lol, I find it funny you're quick to dismiss global warming as the cause but just as quick to find something like solar flares from the sun an interesting alternative.
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Old 03-13-2011, 12:19 PM   #373
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From what I can gather about the reactors in trouble is that there is little they can do at this point about stopping them from doing so, but more that they need to make sure the containment area is intact to stop radiation from spreading. This has been working to this point but the problem is that when this happens, hydrogen builds up and then explodes much like happened yesterday.

really frightening stuff and the last thing you guys in that part of the world needs to be dealing with.
The plants are designed to withstand full melt down without any significant radiation release. What they were originally trying was to save the reactors but once they started adding boric acid and sea water that went out the window. I would be pretty surprised if there was any major radiation release. This is not (so far) and should not be anything like Chernobyl. It should be less than three mile island.

I received this from the American Nuclear Society last night (they are experts in the field and despite what many will say are actually up front and honest about things):

Recognizing that information is still not complete due to the destruction of the communication
infrastructure, producing reports that are conflicting, here is our best understanding of the sequence of
events at the Fukushima I‐1 power station.

 The plant was immediately shut down (scrammed) when the earthquake first hit. The automatic
power system worked.

 All external power to the station was lost when the sea water swept away the power lines.

 Diesel generators started to provide backup electrical power to the plant’s backup cooling
system. The backup worked.

 The diesel generators ceased functioning after approximately one hour due to tsunami induced
damage, reportedly to their fuel supply.

 An Isolation condenser was used to remove the decay heat from the shutdown reactor.

 Apparently the plant then experienced a small loss of coolant from the reactor.

 Reactor Core Isolation Cooling (RCIC) pumps, which operate on steam from the reactor, were
used to replace reactor core water inventory, however, the battery‐supplied control valves lost
DC power after the prolonged use.

 DC power from batteries was consumed after approximately 8 hours.

 At that point, the plant experienced a complete blackout (no electric power at all).

 Hours passed as primary water inventory was lost and core degradation occurred (through some
combination of zirconium oxidation and clad failure).

 Portable diesel generators were delivered to the plant site.

 AC power was restored allowing for a different backup pumping system to replace inventory in
reactor pressure vessel (RPV).

 Pressure in the containment drywell rose as wetwell became hotter.

 The Drywell containment was vented to outside reactor building which surrounds the
containment.

 Hydrogen produced from zirconium oxidation was vented from the containment into the reactor
building.

 Hydrogen in reactor building exploded causing it to collapse around the containment.

 The containment around the reactor and RPV were reported to be intact.

 The decision was made to inject seawater into the RPV to continue to the cooling process,
another backup system that was designed into the plant from inception.

 Radioactivity releases from operator initiated venting appear to be decreasing.

Can it happen here in the US?

 While there are risks associated with operating nuclear plants and other industrial facilities, the
chances of an adverse event similar to what happened in Japan occurring in the US is small.

 Since September 11, 2001, additional safeguards and training have been put in place at US
nuclear reactors which allow plant operators to cool the reactor core during an extended power
outage and/or failure of backup generators – “blackout conditions.”
Is a nuclear reactor "meltdown" a catastrophic event?

 Not necessarily. Nuclear reactors are built with redundant safety systems. Even if the fuel in the
reactor melts, the reactor's containment systems are designed to prevent the spread of
radioactivity into the environment. Should an event like this occur, containing the radioactive
materials could actually be considered a "success" given the scale of this natural disaster that
had not been considered in the original design. The nuclear power industry will learn from this
event, and redesign our facilities as needed to make them safer in the future.

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Old 03-13-2011, 12:52 PM   #374
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People just want to enjoy life and live by the ocean. It also looks to be a port where people make their living, fishing etc....

People don't think about disasters, they live day by day. And if they die they die. I know it sounds morbid.
Totally agree, even here in Canada we have a few million people who live in a future disaster zone in Vancouver and area, I think it was David Suzuki who said a tsunami as high as 200 ft traveling at 600 mph will hit that area anytime between the tomorrow or 1000 years. People just ignore the now and figure/hope it'll be closer to a 1000 years from now.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:09 PM   #375
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I'm not positive, I don't have any experience in the matter. I would think Vancouver buildings would have been built around a system that allows them to experience earthquakes since their basically right on a fault line.
Buidings in B.C. are designed for pretty substantial seismic loads. For example a Canadian Tire built in Calgary will have the odd bay of light angle iron Bracing, usuallly 3 1/2 legs and only single angles usually designed for very light tension and compression loads to help keep the building square. 90% of the beam to column or beam to beam connections only require shear loads.

Whereas the same buiding built in the lower mainland or Vancouver Island will have a lot more braced bays, and the bracing tends to be heavy tube steel braces able to handle substantial compression loads. Many perimeter beams require shear and axial loads to transfer forces through the entire structure. The coast and the Island in particular have pretty substantial seismic requirements. Whereas something in Fort St.John is pretty much the same as a building built in Alberta.

The steel for the same building is considerably more expensive on the coast of BC given that the section sizes are heavier, and the connections are much more complex.

The idea is that the building is to be a rigid structure that will move in unison in the event of a seismic event, but stay together much like these buildings in Japan. I know after the Kobe earth quake they looking into things like different means of how to fasten glass so that windows wouldn't fall off in a heavy earth quake.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:14 PM   #376
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The plant was immediately shut down (scrammed) when the earthquake first hit. The automaticpower system worked.
I visited EBR-1, the world's first breeder reactor, this last summer on a trip through Idaho. Very interesting. Anyway, if you're wondering where the term "scram" comes from, and it's probably not what you'd think, here's the plaque about it:

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Old 03-13-2011, 01:25 PM   #377
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Great info. Civil Engineer?
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:32 PM   #378
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Linking earthquakes to solar flares is no less wishful thinking than linking them to global warming. Piers Corbyn is as much of a kook as those he tries to discredit. He believes he has an all-knowing system that can predict weather months in advance -- not days, but months. He refuses to reveal his "secret formula," but continues to claim it is all knowing.
He's a kook with a good track record, unlike climate alarmists.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:26 PM   #379
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It seems like this problem with the reactors is not over, and could get worse.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/77230.html

"Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Sunday another reactor of its quake-hit Fukushima nuclear power plants had lost its cooling functions, while at least 15 people at a nearby hospital were found to have been exposed to radioactivity.
The utility supplier notified the government early Sunday morning that the No. 3 reactor at the No. 1 Fukushima plant had lost the ability to cool the reactor core. The reactor is now in the process of releasing radioactive steam, according to top government spokesman Yukio Edano.
It was the sixth reactor overall at the Fukushima No. 1 and No. 2 plants to undergo cooling failure since the massive earthquake and ensuing tsunami struck Japan on Friday."

Hopefully a worse-case scenario is avoided here.....
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:30 PM   #380
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If I was in Japan.....I would leave for a bit. At least until things cool down.
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