Small NHL centres such as Keller aren't in vogue anymore since they've been given more defensive duties. He has great offensive abilities but with his size I don't give him a great chance to excel in the NHL at centre. So what you are probably drafting is a small LW.
Definately a LW from my perspective too. And with Janko, Backlund, Bennett and Monahan already pro and Pollock coming (maybe Arnold with bottom 6 2 way potential as well), wing is more of a need than a centre anyway if the BPA works out to be a winger. Though we do have Magiapane in a similar mold on the left side depending on how good you think he will be. RW would obviously be better but the next RW I have is Gauthier who you'd trade down if he's your guy.
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Definately a LW from my perspective too. And with Janko, Backlund, Bennett and Monahan already pro and Pollock coming (maybe Arnold with bottom 6 2 way potential as well), wing is more of a need than a centre anyway if the BPA works out to be a winger. Though we do have Magiapane in a similar mold on the left side depending on how good you think he will be. RW would obviously be better but the next RW I have is Gauthier who you'd trade down if he's your guy.
Developing guys at center and moving them to wing once they're polished up is the best approach. Think Joe Pavelski. Also gives you a potential faceoff guy for penalty killing if he's any good at faceoffs.
Anyways AC posted this in the draft thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC
Clayton Keller 2016 U18 Highlights from bigwhite06
Wow, I see how he gets talked about as one of the most talented players in the draft potentially.
He looks like Gaudreau out there.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
So it's apparent we won't come to an agreement on examples of a franchise player or a power forward but I think we can all agree that Dorsett is an example of a foundational player, right?
So would Wotherspoon plus #6 overall be enough to get #4 from the Oilers?
They get an NHL ready mobile defensive defenseman with size and still get one of Chychrun, Juolevi or Sergachev.
Flames get Dubois.
From having talked to some informed Oiler fans I think their response would be that they need RHD badly. Personally I think they could use a Wotherspoon type but they all seem fixated on adding a RHD. My one friend said he'd rather have a 2nd rounder than add one of our LHD prospects (I proposed Hickey). He did seem interested in Kylington though.
Trading for a LHD and then drafting another LHD leaves them with zero RHD still. You gotta wonder how much Wideman/Nakladal/Engelland would interest them in perhaps a slightly more expanded deal given they have no righties.
Their biggest needs:
-top pairing d-men
-RHD of any variety
-powerplay quarterbacks
Out of the guys in our system they'd probably want Andersson or Kylington the most due to their puck moving and powerplay abilities. I think they'd have to add to get either guy. I think Wideman and Nakladal might interest them because they are both RHD and powerplay QBs.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 05-10-2016 at 10:18 PM.
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In the NHL you should draft BPA, even if your the Oilers. Not sure the Oilers want to drop down 2 spots in the draft just to add Wotherspoon, they may actually have 6 Wotherspoon's this time.
In the NHL you should draft BPA, even if your the Oilers. Not sure the Oilers want to drop down 2 spots in the draft just to add Wotherspoon, they may actually have 6 Wotherspoon's this time.
In the NHL its almost impossible to trade for top 3 d-men. So if you don't draft them you may never have them. And you can't win without them as they should very well know after the last however many years.
The last half of this Craig Button interviews references that very thing in regards to whether the Canucks should take a d-man or trade down and take a d-man. The same concept applies to the Oilers.
So perhaps teams should have a policy of not ranking wingers above top 3 dmen in the draft. You can have as many theoretical 70 point wingers as you want but if you can't defend and you have nobody to move the puck up to said wingers you'll go nowhere fast and never win a thing. You win in this league more with centres, d-men and goalies then you do with wingers. The best winger of this generation (Ovechkin) can't drag his team anywhere it would seem. Chris Pronger dragged a mediocre EDM to the cup finals.
So maybe the BPA for EDM and VAN should be a defensemen even if all the scouts love Tkachuk this draft. It's perfectly good reasoning as to why both teams should be exploring the idea of trading down a couple spots. Both VAN and EDM are arguably much too weak at the defense position to be considering drafting a winger.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 05-10-2016 at 10:34 PM.
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I picked Chychrun. Can never have enough potential top 4 d-men in the system. Wouldn't be upset with Nylander, but Chychrun just seems like a very safe solid pick.
In the NHL its almost impossible to trade for top 3 d-men. So if you don't draft them you may never have them. And you can't win without them as they should very well know after the last however many years.
The last half of this Craig Button interviews references that very thing in regards to whether the Canucks should take a d-man or trade down and take a d-man. The same concept applies to the Oilers.
So perhaps teams should have a policy of not ranking wingers above top 3 dmen in the draft. You can have as many theoretical 70 point wingers as you want but if you can't defend and you have nobody to move the puck up to said wingers you'll go nowhere fast and never win a thing. You win in this league more with centres, d-men and goalies then you do with wingers.
So maybe the BPA for EDM and VAN should be a defensemen even if all the scouts love Tkachuk this draft. It's perfectly good reasoning as to why both teams should be exploring the idea of trading down a couple spots. Both VAN and EDM are arguably much too weak at the defense position to be considering drafting a winger.
Thats fair, but there have been some interesting names thrown around of late. Don't disagree it's hard, but the Oilers are one team with the assets, and willingness to part with said assets to do it IMO. Plus how quickly does the pick at 6 or 4 for that matter for a Dman solve their top 3 D dilemma? Likely not quick enough or with enough certainty for their situation?
And if that pick at 6 could net us a almost ready now top 3 Dman, if I were the Flames I'd just make that pick then look to deal what will be one of 4 top 3 Dman we have on the team to answer our offensive needs.
Thats fair, but there have been some interesting names thrown around of late. Don't disagree it's hard, but the Oilers are one team with the assets, and willingness to part with said assets to do it IMO.
Yep. It's going to be interesting to see if they can turn wingers (Hall, Eberle) into defensemen. I'm skeptical they can although I do think Hall has some value league wide. It may take RNH or Draisaitl who play a much more important position. I'm very curious to see if Chiarelli can manage to deal for a defenseman that solves their issues. I'm not convinced that the defenseman they need in the age range they need will be available.
The obvious candidate to me are CBJ who have Jones, Murray, JJ, Savard and the very highly touted Zach Werenski who just left college and is ripping up the AHL already in the playoffs. But is JJ the answer for EDM? ANA might be another potential suitor but are Vatanen or Manson or Despres really the solution for EDM? I'm skeptical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle
Plus how quickly does the pick at 6 or 4 for that matter for a Dman solve their top 3 D dilemma? Likely not quick enough or with enough certainty for their situation?
Most interviews I've heard with scouts say those d-men are probably a year out. Could be more. But like I said, if you don't grow them yourself you may never get them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle
And if that pick at 6 could net us a almost ready now top 3 Dman, if I were the Flames I'd just make that pick then look to deal what will be one of 4 top 3 Dman we have on the team to answer our offensive needs.
Yeah I'm pretty comfortable if the Flames go the NSH route and just take the BPA even if its a d-man. You can never have too many of them.
The issue for us is that both Tkachuk/Dubois are likely more NHL ready now than the d-men. And they would solve a position of need potentially as soon as next fall. So drafting them IMO could accelerate the rebuild slightly by filling an immediate need now (or at the very least within a year) and a longterm need. Drafting Chychrun and trading him in 2 years for a young power forward just doesn't solve the issue as quickly.
We're still in a good position regardless as we've already got good depth at centre and defense, two of the most important positions in hockey. EDM and VAN are the ones in the tricky position as they lack depth on defense and this gives them a very interesting dilemma this draft with theoretically the BPA at their spots being forwards.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 05-10-2016 at 10:47 PM.
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I want to think the same but can't help wondering how he wasn't a 40 goal scorer with those highlights. Is there consistency or compete issues?
If anything, he looks bored by junior hockey. Watching his tape, he has the ability to flip a switch and dominate. I imagine the novelty of shredding the OHL wears off pretty quick.
If anything, he looks bored by junior hockey. Watching his tape, he has the ability to flip a switch and dominate. I imagine the novelty of shredding the OHL wears off pretty quick.
I would agree with you if this was his draft +1 or draft +2 seasons. Maybe I would agree. This is his draft year. If he can't flip his switch with more consistently to help his team win and also elevate his own personal standings in the draft, then I would be even more inclined to dislike him as a prospect. I find players who don't have that competitive drive in them frustrating as heck.
So I think he is either fairly inconsistent, or he just doesn't have the drive. Those are two pretty big knocks.
I actually don't think that his drive is the problem. He is a kid, and you hope that he becomes more consistent with time and training as he becomes a pro. Still really on the fence with this kid - I should really love him and hope the Flames draft him, but I just can't get myself on board, even though I think he is super skilled. Though William was not the best prospect available in his draft year, I was 'ok' with the Flames taking a chance on him as I did think he had the highest offensive ceiling (or possibly the highest). I just don't like his brother as much, and I thought I would like him even more.
Definately a LW from my perspective too. And with Janko, Backlund, Bennett and Monahan already pro and Pollock coming (maybe Arnold with bottom 6 2 way potential as well), wing is more of a need than a centre anyway if the BPA works out to be a winger. Though we do have Magiapane in a similar mold on the left side depending on how good you think he will be. RW would obviously be better but the next RW I have is Gauthier who you'd trade down if he's your guy.
Yeah it's not like we have much going on in LW either beyond Gaudreau.
I really like Kellers game too. He seems to have that competitiveness which is mandatory to have NHL success, especially for smaller guys. And that hockey IQ is really elite. I don't think we're drafting him, but it's easy to see the attraction.
It's nice to have plenty of good options and faith in our scouting.
This illustrates exactly why the Oilers have had an emergent lack of defensemen for years now - instead of building and developing a large stable of candidates, they continually/annually go out and get ONE guy and think it will solve their problems.
They should:
1) trade forwards (Eberle, RNH, Yakupov) for a solid defensemen. AND
2) with whoever's left from the pile above after the first trade, use them to get a 2nd, lesser defenseman AND
3) try to sign a UFA D-man, AND
4) make the trade with Calgary (or someone) to get a Wotherspoon type return now AND
5) then draft a defensemen with their 6-10 overall pick (and probably their top 3 picks).
No, drafting a defenseman won't solve their problems. But it will help with the problem in the fufure - they need to build a stable.
No, Wotherspoon won't solve their problems this year - but he would help add depth, something they desperately lack.
If they did all 5 things above, they would still be weak on D, but they will have gone a long ways towards fixing the problem.
Last edited by Enoch Root; 05-11-2016 at 07:21 AM.
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