Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would Nenshi have plans for an arena in Victoria park unless the Flames are paying for it? He's been clear there's not benefit to the city to do this, so if the Flames don't want to put their rink there on the terms the city has offered, why would any rink anywhere be on his book.

Unless the Flames come back to the table, Nenshi and the city should have 0 plans around building such a facility.................unless they are full of #### about there being benefit to them and our city beyond the Flames.

Could be a great location for a field house.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Could be a great location for a field house.

I'm not sure the East Village / VP area is about Field Houses and athletic facilities as much as it should be about cultural and entertainment facilities. But you never know

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

this post is also condescending. Cost aside, CalgaryNext is a nice concept.

The Mayors voice is louder than his vote and it really is a big shame he was re-elected. Calgary is worse off for it. The Flames negotiation has halted and now his little pet project called the entertainment district is probably his first priority so he can have a lasting legacy aside from being referred to as the arrogant one.

CalgaryNEXT was a nice idea in the avenue of "lets make this area better", but a poor concept in terms of timing and design.

Saying "cost aside" is also kind of silly when cost is the crux of this entire back and forth.

We can also compare the negatives of arrogance vs contempt. Because sure, the mayor is arrogant, but King is treating the tax base of this city with borderline contempt and clearly with false magnanimity. Acting like they're doing a massive service for the city by taking a bunch of money.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I liked the gillies article but this:

But there are ways to make it more affordable. For four years I owned a quarter share of season tickets in section 223. A pair of second level seats for 11 games added up to about $1200 a season or $100 a month.

I could fit that into my budget. I’ve also sat in the “press” level (nose bleed!) seats a few times and it can be more fun there than any cushy club seat. I do appreciate that even a night out there with family can add up in a real hurry.


I'm not sure he a) understands that 1200 a season is a lot of money for a large percentage of calgarians; and b) tickets in the bleeds for a family of 4, with food can add up to 2-300 dollars.

This part also bothered me:

The impact of the Flames is everywhere:

The Hotchkiss Brain Institute – Healthy Brains for Better Lives
The Libin Cardiovascular Institute – Heart research, education, and care
Edwards family Neonatal intensive care unit – Alberta Children’s Hospital
Rotary Flames House – supporting families facing the death of a terminally ill child
Flames Community Arenas
Seaman Stadium
Riddell Library and Learning Centre – Mount Royal University

Without disputing that the Flames organization and owners contribute immense amounts of time and financial support to numerous causes, it's dangerous to start trying to argue that the impact of the charitable giving of successful businessmen who own the Flames is the same as the impact of the Flames. It's almost as if to suggest absent having the Flames here, our business and community leaders like those mentioned above would not be charitable, which I think is kind of a negative thing to suggest and kind of offensive to them. Only those items above highlighted in red are specifically tied to the Flames, and in the case of the community arenas, it's disingenuous to suggest that's an "impact" as it was part of their cheap deal with the City for the Saddledome. The rest are very generous donations made by wealthy Calgarians and really don't have much to do with the Flames at all.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Reneeee

CalgaryNext is a nice concept.

Was it?

Poor location for a fieldhouse, worse mass transit access than a Vic Park location and barriers for pedestrian access to boot, cannibalizes development in other spots in the inner city, prioritization of private events in a public fieldhouse, etc.


It wasn't even that good in concept. It was just, something.

[Table 5]

CalgaryNEXT, and the idea of combining facilities to be more efficient, is an interesting concept.

Unfortunately the realities of the location, the suspect financing, and the terrible sales job, doomed it from the start.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Table 5

CalgaryNEXT, and the idea of combining facilities to be more efficient, is an interesting concept.

Unfortunately the realities of the location, the suspect financing, and the terrible sales job, doomed it from the start.

Combining a Flames and Stamps home is an interesting concept.

Combining a Stamps home, and an amateur/youth sports fieldhouse looked like it was going to make crappy versions of each for a lot of money.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Combining a Flames and Stamps home is an interesting concept.

Combining a Stamps home, and an amateur/youth sports fieldhouse looked like it was going to make crappy versions of each for a lot of money.

Yeah, I don't disagree, I think it would've ended up with a mediocre outcome for everyone. I was also not a fan of the massive monolithic feel of the thing.

[Backlunds_socks]

I think Renee is KK.

[Tyler]

CalgaryNext sounds great until you realize that the supporting infrastructure could never handle the complex and you couldn't use both at the same time, let alone flush the toilets. Something that people tend to overlook, and a very disappointing fact that you think the Flames would have looked into before proposing this monolith.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

I think Renee is KK.

Well he did say that a pro sports team was his top priority in deciding where his family would live, by extension saying that it rates more highly to him then...

employment
education system
taxes
public works
affordable housing
crime rate
transportation
accessable health care

... which strikes me as something King would say so I guess we can't rule him being KK out.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Why do I come here expecting to see any new details or constructive discussion on this? All I see is the same 6-7 people yapping among themselves with the same points over and over again and jumping all over anyone new who enters the fray because most posted have just decided it’s not worth their time.

[Parallex]

I kind of asked this earlier but does anyone know what % of CSEC each of the properties (Flames, Hitmen, Roughnecks, Stamps) composes? Seems kind of strange that the Flames are only willing to foot 61.1% of what they were willing to foot for CalgaryNext when the only property they have that can't be housed by the arena is the Stamps and I doubt that the Stamps account for 38.9% of CSEC operations.

[RM14]

Do we have an all things Saddledome thread?


On a possessive note.. The Flames have introduced "Happy Hour" in the dome before each game.

No new arena necessary now

Beat the game time rush and celebrate our new $5 Hockey Happy Hour!


Arrive 1.5 hours prior to puck drop at every Flames home game starting this Friday and enjoy:

An additional 10% off all regular priced merchandise at FanAttic, including jerseys
14 oz. domestic draft beer, 1 oz. highball, 6 oz. house wine, a cheeseburger OR a pizza slice for just $5 each*

*Concession stands only, not valid in the Scotiabank Saddledome restaurants

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Why do I come here expecting to see any new details or constructive discussion on this? All I see is the same 6-7 people yapping among themselves with the same points over and over again and jumping all over anyone new who enters the fray because most posted have just decided it’s not worth their time.

The Flames walked away over a month ago, so there aren't any new details to talk about, and never will be, if Ken King is to be believed that it isn't just a negotiating tactic.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by RM14

Do we have an all things Saddledome thread?


On a possessive note.. The Flames have introduced "Happy Hour" in the dome before each game.

No new arena necessary now

90mins early? Are they insane?

[Roughneck]

14 oz. domestic draft beer

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

90mins early? Are they insane?

They are just doing this because their new security measures are making it impossible for people to get seated in time.

[Reneeee]

I can assure everybody I am not KK, if I was, CalgaryNext and its proposal would have been far better sold to all parties involved.

[Pellanor]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Why would Nenshi have plans for an arena in Victoria park unless the Flames are paying for it?

Area not Arena. I was referring to the general revitalization effort / entertainment district. If the flames don't negotiate, does the city plan something else to do with the proposed space as part of this effort?