Israel declares war on Hamas

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Meanwhile in other news 400,000 Yemeni's are dead, cholera runs rampant in the 4 million displaced in the country, the war in Somali rages on unchecked, 500,000 dead so far but hey who gives a **** about them eh?? they aint the cool muslims we give a toss about for some reason

Start a thread on those issues if they're of interest to you and we'll discuss.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Whataboutisms aside (and you know we have a very large Yemen thread as well right?), I've admitted previously that for me a lot of this is selfish.

Those Israeli #######s are making other Jews (read: me and mine) look bad and stoking fires of antisemitism by being ruthless morons. I, personally, would like them to stop doing that so that I stop getting asked why they're so dumb and bad at running a government that feels like they're justified in murdering thousands of people.

Of course I didn't know we have a Yemen thread, no one has posted on it in months, maybe years as I can't find it, no one cares

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

I really don't see how this is different than what Pointman was stating. An elderly peace activist and a bunch of young people at a love based music festival deserve to be raped because religious settlers exist in Israel?

The only difference I see is perhaps a semantic debate about whether "deserve" and " inevitable" are all that different.

Seriously.

Originally Posted by Zevo

#### right off with that ####. My daughter was about 10 km from that party at a friends farm when this happened. We’re very lucky it wasn’t her being raped and mmurdered. Like #### right off with these flippant remarks.

Totally agree. I think it’s a heinous thing to say and people who are that flippant about the deaths of innocent people should absolutely #### right off.

Which was the point of me responding with it, as verbatim as I could, to a post saying the nearly the exact same thing about the deaths of thousands of children and babies being blown in half by the IDF, which neither of you took issue with:

Originally Posted by Language

We all acknowledge that what is happening is terrible and it’s very sad when innocent lives are lost. But you live in some sort of mystical fairy land if you think what’s happening now wasn’t inevitable after what Hamas did.

I didn’t even include “mystical fairy land,” but imagine the responses if I did?

And, to be clear, unlike Language or Pointman, I don’t stand behind that statement and I’m happy to disown it and apologize genuinely that it was upsetting (though acknowledging that you, Zevo, thanked Language’s post but told me to “#### right off” for saying the same thing), because it’s an awful thing to say, but needed to be written out to make my point. Maybe we can see now how upsetting these casual/flippant comments about Palestinian victims can be?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Let's dispel some of this once and for all:

On the 96% of West Bank number:
The often-repeated line that Barak offered the Palestinians the Gaza Strip and 96% of the West Bank for a state is completely untrue. Barak offered the Palestinians 96% of Israel’s definition of the West Bank, meaning they did not include any of the areas already under Israeli control, such as settlements, the Dead Sea, and large parts of the Jordan Valley. This meant that Barak effectively annexed 10% of the West Bank to Israel, with an additional 8-12% remaining under “temporary” Israeli control for a period of time.

You can read more about this here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...hepalestinians

On Jerusalem
In the case of East Jerusalem, which was supposed to be the capital of the Palestinian state, Israel refused any form of Palestinian sovereignty over the majority of the city, including many Palestinian neighborhoods. It should be noted that the PA agreed to Israeli sovereignty over Jewish neighborhoods and the Western wall, and even proposed Israel annex settlements in East Jerusalem in return for land swaps elsewhere. This was met with Israeli intransigence, and an insistence that the Noble Sanctuary remain under Israeli sovereignty, and that a part of it should be reserved for Jewish worshippers.

On Palestinian Sovereignty
Israel demanded permanent control of Palestinian airspace, three permanent military installations manned by Israeli troops in the West Bank, Israeli presence at Palestinian border crossings, and special “security arrangements” along the borders with Jordan which effectively annexed additional land. Israel would also be allowed to invade at any point in cases of “emergency”. What constituted an emergency was left incredibly vague and up to interpretation. The Palestinian state would be demilitarized, and the Palestinian government would not be able to enter into alliances without Israeli permission. None of these are ingredients for the creation of an actual sovereign state.

This is ultimately the map proposed by Israel in those accords.


Basically it was asking the Palestinians to permanently accept being forced into Bantustans and signing off on their permanent status as an occupied people.

This is not correct. This map is what Israel offered prior to the conclusion of the Camp David Summit. By the end of the Summit, Israel had accepted a deal taking only 9%.

What Clinton, however, is referring to is a later peace negotiation called the Taba Summit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taba_Summit

Israel reduced its demands to 6% with territorial compensation that would offset about 3%, while the Palestinians proposed an Israeli annexation of about 3% along with a territorial compensation of the same amount. The Israeli proposal would have given the Palestinians some 97% of the land area of the West Bank.

There's a pretty good documentary on the peace process at that time here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...HQ%26t%3D7472s

There was certainly a brief moment when things could have been done. Israel made the offer. It was rejected by Arafat. The Second Intifada rages on, the Israelis elect a more hardline government in response. No further meaningful talks.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Totally agree. I think it’s a heinous thing to say and people who are that flippant about the deaths of innocent people should absolutely #### right off.

Which was the point of me responding with it, as verbatim as I could, to a post saying the nearly the exact same thing about the deaths of thousands of children and babies being blown in half by the IDF, which neither of you took issue with:



I didn’t even include “mystical fairy land,” but imagine the responses if I did?

And, to be clear, unlike Language or Pointman, I don’t stand behind that statement and I’m happy to disown it and apologize genuinely that it was upsetting (though acknowledging that you, Zevo, thanked Language’s post but told me to “#### right off” for saying the same thing), because it’s an awful thing to say, but needed to be written out to make my point. Maybe we can see now how upsetting these casual/flippant comments about Palestinian victims can be?

Got them

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not calling for a fair fight at all.

I think Israel - in violation of generally accepted international protocols - should find Hamas leadership in any country on earth and literally kill them. Apparently they're living luxurious lives all around the world, or so I hear. Okay, let's get 'em. Israel has my full support to do that.

I think you need to write-off the 250 hostages. They're certainly not worth killing thousands of Palestinians over. It's too disproportionate.

The militants are hiding within the population because that's what militants need to do when they border a powerful and antagonistic military state that views them as sub-human. Do you expect them to build military bases lol? That's an absurd expectation. They would be destroyed in a day. Sorry, but that's just so dumb to expect them to be so dumb as to put a target on their military. They're spread out amongst the population out of necessity.

So how do you get them? Well, that requires patience, intelligence (spy craft, that is...not just a guy with a high IQ) and the support of the local population. You need to earn and build that support - it's a strategic failing on Israel's part that they have not built up that network within Gaza and now they're paying the price for it. And any goodwill they may have had there is definitely gone now because of idiotic, knee-jerk, sledgehammer tactics. But that's where we are, so what next?

Israel needs to immediately change their strategy. Stop dropping bombs on kids/families, for a start. Get down and dirty in a guerilla war is all they can do. Crawl around in tunnels, I guess. I mean, they were complicit in constructing the circumstances that have led to this point, so now they have a harder battle than could have been. I would hope they have sleeper agents and imbedded Israelis living amongst the population to aid in being more surgical and strategic - if they don't, then I guess you can add it to the pile of dumb stuff this government has(n't) done.

While I agree with much of what you say, I believe as the pressure mounts on Israel, at some point very soon they will be forced to stop the bombing. My hope is that, at that point, Hamas has been sufficiently damaged and neutralized, that it no longer poses a threat to Israel. Time is of the essence. We don't need a long period of street to street guerrilla warfare.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Totally agree. I think it’s a heinous thing to say and people who are that flippant about the deaths of innocent people should absolutely #### right off.

Which was the point of me responding with it, as verbatim as I could, to a post saying the nearly the exact same thing about the deaths of thousands of children and babies being blown in half by the IDF, which neither of you took issue with:

I took issue with his statements. My quote from the previous page:

Pointman, if you do believe that the best solution is totally wiping out the Palestinian people, what you believe is wrong. I hope you can do some soul searching and come to a conclusion that will actually lead to a peaceful resolution.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not calling for a fair fight at all.

I think Israel - in violation of generally accepted international protocols - should find Hamas leadership in any country on earth and literally kill them. Apparently they're living luxurious lives all around the world, or so I hear. Okay, let's get 'em. Israel has my full support to do that.

I think you need to write-off the 250 hostages. They're certainly not worth killing thousands of Palestinians over. It's too disproportionate.

The militants are hiding within the population because that's what militants need to do when they border a powerful and antagonistic military state that views them as sub-human. Do you expect them to build military bases lol? That's an absurd expectation. They would be destroyed in a day. Sorry, but that's just so dumb to expect them to be so dumb as to put a target on their military. They're spread out amongst the population out of necessity.

So how do you get them? Well, that requires patience, intelligence (spy craft, that is...not just a guy with a high IQ) and the support of the local population. You need to earn and build that support - it's a strategic failing on Israel's part that they have not built up that network within Gaza and now they're paying the price for it. And any goodwill they may have had there is definitely gone now because of idiotic, knee-jerk, sledgehammer tactics. But that's where we are, so what next?

Israel needs to immediately change their strategy. Stop dropping bombs on kids/families, for a start. Get down and dirty in a guerilla war is all they can do. Crawl around in tunnels, I guess. I mean, they were complicit in constructing the circumstances that have led to this point, so now they have a harder battle than could have been. I would hope they have sleeper agents and imbedded Israelis living amongst the population to aid in being more surgical and strategic - if they don't, then I guess you can add it to the pile of dumb stuff this government has(n't) done.

Assassinating and summarily executing political leaders on foreign soil is not international protocol. Israel would get in a ton of crap for that. What happens when inevitably foreign nationals get caught in the cross-fire? Is Qatar going to allow team of Israeli assassins onto their soil? Israel would have to trespass onto Qatari soil, probably with fake passports, then somehow get to guarded men there, without incurring any collateral damage.

So you're saying hiding behind your own civilians, including behind hospitals and schools is okay, as long as you feel you have to do it? Don't you think there's degrees of culpability here? Couldn't Hamas find a solution somewhere in between being in the wide open and storing hostages and leaders directly under civilian targets?

More surgical and strategic, that's 100% a statement I can agree with. But the rest of this stuff is absolutely wild. Calling Israel to break all sorts of international laws by executing non-combatants on foreign soil. Absolving Hamas from hiding behind civilians the way they are.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

I took issue with his statements. My quote from the previous page:

Was talking about Language’s post, which is where I copied/pasted the comment you said was “as bad as Pointman’s” from and is the same post it was in-reply to, but you either didn’t see his post in full or didn’t seem to have a problem with him saying it.

I respect that you called out Pointman’s post, we’re all good. Zevo thanked the post I pulled the comment from, which is more indicative of issue I’m talking about.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Sliver

He's a total monster. My jaw is on my desk as I read his posts.

Just as shocking: nobody in this thread on the side of the Israeli military says, 'woah, dude...too far' to him. This thread has been super eye opening about some of the posters here.

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm hoping that something is lost in translation here, as English is not Pointman's first language.

Hopefully, he's getting at the fact that if you elect a group like Hamas into power, then the eventual outcome is war on your territory.

For the record, I would neve advocate purposely killing civilians, including the families of militants.

Edit:

Pointman, if you do believe that the best solution is totally wiping out the Palestinian people, what you believe is wrong. I hope you can do some soul searching and come to a conclusion that will actually lead to a peaceful resolution.

Originally Posted by blankall

In Pointman's defence I don't think he was arguing for genocide as a positive. He was just stating that many conflicts end when one side has been thoroughly beaten. As oppose to the counterargument that people were making about this conflict ending when Israel stops fighting Hamas. He could have definitely worded that better.

Edit: I also had not read his posts on the last page, before writing this. A a lot of stuff I definitely do not agree with.

Originally Posted by blankall

I took issue with his statements. My quote from the previous page:

In fairness to the chronology of the conversation, you went back and edited your posts with pushback against pointman after being called out. Prior to that, you had been putting in effort defending his posts.

I don't think that's bad, though. Nothing wrong with evaluating our takes and responses to other takes in real time.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sliver

In fairness to the chronology of the conversation, you went back and edited your posts with pushback against pointman after being called out. Prior to that, you had been putting in effort defending his posts.

I don't think that's bad, though. Nothing wrong with evaluating our takes and responses to other takes in real time.

I was referring to his previous post about some conflicts ending when the other side had been wiped out. I had not even seen his latest posts about killing family members. They were on a previous page of this thread, which I had not read. This thread moves fast. I edited my response upon reading them.

My previous knowledge of Pointman was limited to the posts, about his own horrific experience, he had made about him and his family surviving and then fleeing from the war in Ukraine. He then arrived in Israel only shortly prior to the incident of October 7. This is why posters are providing him with more leeway than the average poster on here, who is 100% a keyboard warrior, myself included.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by blankall

I was referring to his previous post about some conflicts ending when the other side had been wiped out. I had not even seen his latest posts about killing family members. They were on a previous page of this thread, which I had not read. This thread moves fast. I edited my response upon reading them.

My previous knowledge of Pointman was limited to the posts, about his own horrific experience, he had made about him and his family surviving and then fleeing from the war in Ukraine. He then arrived in Israel only shortly prior to the incident of October 7. This is why posters are providing him with more leeway than the average poster on here, who is 100% a keyboard warrior, myself included.

Do you think that’s why?

I think if you lined up the statements of people who gave Pointman leeway or said nothing at all with the statements those same people made about similar comments or reactions from Palestinians directly affected, I doubt you’d see a similar type of sentiment or leeway offered.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Do you think that’s why?

I think if you lined up the statements of people who gave Pointman leeway or said nothing at all with the statements those same people made about similar comments or reactions from Palestinians directly affected, I doubt you’d see a similar type of sentiment or leeway offered.

Yes, I do think it's why. Many of you are straight up trolling Pointman for the purpose of eliciting a reaction. Pointman is a very recent survivor of a very traumatic situation. Even if you don't think that's the case, there's certainly an obnoxious, condescending, and flippant tone to many of the posts in here.

Many posters are clearly looking for their smoking gun, to counteract the fact they are not acknowledging events like a crowd of people spitting on the mutilated and recently raped corpse of a 20 year old woman.

Then posters attempting to hold out Pointman as a representative of all Israelis, despite the fact he's only been in the country for a few months.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by blankall

This is not correct. This map is what Israel offered prior to the conclusion of the Camp David Summit. By the end of the Summit, Israel had accepted a deal taking only 9%.

What Clinton, however, is referring to is a later peace negotiation called the Taba Summit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taba_Summit



There's a pretty good documentary on the peace process at that time here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...HQ%26t%3D7472s

There was certainly a brief moment when things could have been done. Israel made the offer. It was rejected by Arafat. The Second Intifada rages on, the Israelis elect a more hardline government in response. No further meaningful talks.

The trouble with long running 'liberation' movements like the PLO and Hamas is they actually don't want peace, they don't even want to win in reality, there were similar issues with the IRA, a substantial amount of IRA military leadership were quiet happy with endless troubles, they weren't trying to kick out the Brits, they and their UDA counterparts had nice little earners going, they ran prostitution, loan sharking and protection rackets, they had no skills that would give them a role in a peacetime settlement so they were being asked to not only give up their income but also the prestige/respect/fear they wielded in a conflict setting, the only reason peace came to N Ireland was because the IRA had a political wing who could see an increased role for themselves in a peaceful setting and because the population utterly rejected any further conflict

Hamas wouldn't last a month in a 'free' peaceful Gaza or Palestine where running an economy becomes the crucial skill set so they won't ever make peace, Likud to a much lesser degree also suffers from this mindset but they do actually have to provide prosperity and so cant just make a living from being at war, it helps them but it isnt the average Israeli's first reason for supporting them

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by blankall

This is not correct. This map is what Israel offered prior to the conclusion of the Camp David Summit. By the end of the Summit, Israel had accepted a deal taking only 9%.

What Clinton, however, is referring to is a later peace negotiation called the Taba Summit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taba_Summit



There's a pretty good documentary on the peace process at that time here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...HQ%26t%3D7472s

There was certainly a brief moment when things could have been done. Israel made the offer. It was rejected by Arafat. The Second Intifada rages on, the Israelis elect a more hardline government in response. No further meaningful talks.

Yes, and it seems as though talks broke down because it was just a few weeks before the Israeli election. It also seems as though Arafat ultimately accepted the terms of those talks, with the incoming Sharon administration canceling any agreements made.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by blankall

Assassinating and summarily executing political leaders on foreign soil is not international protocol. Israel would get in a ton of crap for that. What happens when inevitably foreign nationals get caught in the cross-fire? Is Qatar going to allow team of Israeli assassins onto their soil? Israel would have to trespass onto Qatari soil, probably with fake passports, then somehow get to guarded men there, without incurring any collateral damage.

Slow down and read these posts better, dude. You were defending pointman's heinous posting history because you didn't carefully read what he was writing and what people were responding to.

Now you're correcting me that assassinating political leaders on foreign soil is not international protocol - no ####. I specifically said I was in support of Israel doing that in violation of international protocol.

Yeah, nobody said this will be easy. You're going to have to slip into places, assassinate these guys and slip back out. Assassinations will have to look like accidents. No fk ups, boys.

I believe Israel can handle this. They've done it before with their Nazi hunting (or at least I saw a movie about that I think was based on a true story, IDK).

I like this way because it doesn't decimate the infrastructure of Gaza while murdering thousands of civilians. I'm quirky like that, though.

Originally Posted by blankall

So you're saying hiding behind your own civilians, including behind hospitals and schools is okay, as long as you feel you have to do it? Don't you think there's degrees of culpability here? Couldn't Hamas find a solution somewhere in between being in the wide open and storing hostages and leaders directly under civilian targets?

Am I saying it's okay? No, not really. I am saying it's rational.

Surely you'd concede Hamas is much weaker militarily than Israel, right? That's basic.

How, then, would Hamas amass any sort of military capability for defense (or offence) unless they did it underground/covertly?

Do I like that they're hiding amongst civilians? Of course not. I understand the strategy, though. It's, frankly, a good strategy - particularly when you aren't concerned about your own citizens' safety.

See, the Palestinians are victims of Hamas and Israel. It's one of the reasons why I don't like the fact they're being slaughtered. They're in an impossible position.

I guess if the question is, who is more culpable for the bombings of civilian infrastructure: Hamas leadership or the Israeli gov't/military, I'd have to say the Israelis because they are the ones dropping bombs.

Originally Posted by blankall

More surgical and strategic, that's 100% a statement I can agree with. But the rest of this stuff is absolutely wild. Calling Israel to break all sorts of international laws by executing non-combatants on foreign soil. Absolving Hamas from hiding behind civilians the way they are.

I like how you think following random international protocols at the cost of thousands of innocent lives is more noble than breaking international protocols to kill a few dozen people who are actually responsible for October 7.

That's absolutely wild.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The trouble with long running 'liberation' movements like the PLO and Hamas is they actually don't want peace, they don't even want to win in reality, there were similar issues with the IRA, a substantial amount of IRA military leadership were quiet happy with endless troubles, they weren't trying to kick out the Brits, they and their UDA counterparts had nice little earners going, they ran prostitution, loan sharking and protection rackets, they had no skills that would give them a role in a peacetime settlement so they were being asked to not only give up their income but also the prestige/respect/fear they wielded in a conflict setting, the only reason peace came to N Ireland was because the IRA had a political wing who could see an increased role for themselves in a peaceful setting and because the population utterly rejected any further conflict

Hamas wouldn't last a month in a 'free' peaceful Gaza or Palestine where running an economy becomes the crucial skill set so they won't ever make peace, Likud to a much lesser degree also suffers from this mindset but they do actually have to provide prosperity and so cant just make a living from being at war, it helps them but it isnt the average Israeli's first reason for supporting them

Not going to get into it with you or derail the thread except to just say I wish you would just stfu about NI and stop pretending you lived through the troubles and know what you're talking about when you clearly don't.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Slow down and read these posts better, dude. You were defending pointman's heinous posting history because you didn't carefully read what he was writing and what people were responding to.

Now you're correcting me that assassinating political leaders on foreign soil is not international protocol - no ####. I specifically said I was in support of Israel doing that in violation of international protocol.

Yeah, nobody said this will be easy. You're going to have to slip into places, assassinate these guys and slip back out. Assassinations will have to look like accidents. No fk ups, boys.

I believe Israel can handle this. They've done it before with their Nazi hunting (or at least I saw a movie about that I think was based on a true story, IDK).

I like this way because it doesn't decimate the infrastructure of Gaza while murdering thousands of civilians. I'm quirky like that, though.



Am I saying it's okay? No, not really. I am saying it's rational.

Surely you'd concede Hamas is much weaker militarily than Israel, right? That's basic.

How, then, would Hamas amass any sort of military capability for defense (or offence) unless they did it underground/covertly?

Do I like that they're hiding amongst civilians? Of course not. I understand the strategy, though. It's, frankly, a good strategy - particularly when you aren't concerned about your own citizens' safety.

See, the Palestinians are victims of Hamas and Israel. It's one of the reasons why I don't like the fact they're being slaughtered. They're in an impossible position.

I guess if the question is, who is more culpable for the bombings of civilian infrastructure: Hamas leadership or the Israeli gov't/military, I'd have to say the Israelis because they are the ones dropping bombs.



I like how you think following random international protocols at the cost of thousands of innocent lives is more noble than breaking international protocols to kill a few dozen people who are actually responsible for October 7.

That's absolutely wild.

If only Israel had a certain, famous intelligence agency that had the experience, history and know how on how to conduct such operations... Oh wait.

A division of Mossad:

Caesarea: conducts special operations and houses the Kidon (Hebrew: כידון, "bayonet", "javelin" or a "spear") unit, an elite group of assassins.[8]

A special unit called Metsada allegedly runs "small units of combatants" whose missions include "assassinations and sabotage".

The kidon are Mossad's elite assassins. Recruits receive two years of training at Mossad's training facility near Herzliya.

Operation Damocles – A campaign of assassination and intimidation against German rocket scientists employed by Egypt in building missiles.[citation needed]
A bomb sent to the Heliopolis rocket factory killed five Egyptian workers, allegedly sent by Otto Skorzeny on behalf of the Mossad.
Heinz Krug, 49, the chief of a Munich company supplying military hardware to Egypt disappeared in September 1962 and is believed to have been assassinated by Otto Skorzeny on behalf of the Mossad.

Uruguay
In 1965, the Mossad assassinated Latvian Nazi collaborator Herberts Cukurs

Mossad has been accused of assassinating Masoud Alimohammadi, Ardeshir Hosseinpour, Majid Shahriari, Darioush Rezaeinejad and Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan; scientists involved in the Iranian nuclear program. It is also suspected of being behind the attempted assassination of Iranian nuclear scientist Fereydoon Abbasi.[51] Meir Dagan, who served as Director of Mossad from 2002 until 2009, while not taking credit for the assassinations, praised them in an interview with a journalist, saying "the removal of important brains" from the Iranian nuclear project had achieved so-called "white defections", frightening other Iranian nuclear scientists into requesting that they be transferred to civilian projects.

Mossad was accused of being behind the assassination of Aziz Asbar, a senior Syrian scientist responsible for developing long-range rockets and chemical weapons programs. He was killed in a car bomb in Masyaf on August 5, 2018.

In 2018, Hamas and the family of Malaysian-based Hamas engineer and university lecturer Fadi Mohammad al-Batsh have accused the Mossad of assassinating him. In April 2018, al-Batsh was shot dead by two men on a motorbike in Kuala Lumpur. Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi described the suspects as Europeans with links to an unidentified foreign intelligence agency. In response, Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman denied that Mossad was involved in al-Batsh's assassination and suggested that his death was the result of an internal Palestinian dispute. Hamas also issued a statement describing Batsh as a "martyr" and "distinguished scientist who has widely contributed to the energy sector."

The alleged killing of Atef Bseiso, a top intelligence officer of the PLO, in Paris in 1992. French police believe that a team of assassins followed Atef Bseiso from Berlin, where that first team connected with another team to close in on him in front of a Left Bank hotel, where he received three head-shots at point blank range.

The assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh – a senior Hamas military commander – in Dubai, 2010, was suspected to be the work of Mossad, and there were eight Irish passports (six of which were used) fraudulently obtained by the Israeli embassy in Dublin, Ireland for use by alleged Mossad agents in the operation.

There are so many more references, I had to stop. But surely Israel would never consider doing this per Blankall, it is far too risky...

Assassinating and summarily executing political leaders on foreign soil is not international protocol. Israel would get in a ton of crap for that. What happens when inevitably foreign nationals get caught in the cross-fire? Is Qatar going to allow team of Israeli assassins onto their soil? Israel would have to trespass onto Qatari soil, probably with fake passports, then somehow get to guarded men there, without incurring any collateral damage.

[Southside403]

https://youtu.be/N2_cbatf5fw?si=HyKlSEjDErzfVL8A

Does this makes any sense to what's happening like your thoughts.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Slow down and read these posts better, dude. You were defending pointman's heinous posting history because you didn't carefully read what he was writing and what people were responding to.

Now you're correcting me that assassinating political leaders on foreign soil is not international protocol - no ####. I specifically said I was in support of Israel doing that in violation of international protocol.

Yeah, nobody said this will be easy. You're going to have to slip into places, assassinate these guys and slip back out. Assassinations will have to look like accidents. No fk ups, boys.

I believe Israel can handle this. They've done it before with their Nazi hunting (or at least I saw a movie about that I think was based on a true story, IDK).

I like this way because it doesn't decimate the infrastructure of Gaza while murdering thousands of civilians. I'm quirky like that, though.



Am I saying it's okay? No, not really. I am saying it's rational.

Surely you'd concede Hamas is much weaker militarily than Israel, right? That's basic.

How, then, would Hamas amass any sort of military capability for defense (or offence) unless they did it underground/covertly?

Do I like that they're hiding amongst civilians? Of course not. I understand the strategy, though. It's, frankly, a good strategy - particularly when you aren't concerned about your own citizens' safety.

See, the Palestinians are victims of Hamas and Israel. It's one of the reasons why I don't like the fact they're being slaughtered. They're in an impossible position.

I guess if the question is, who is more culpable for the bombings of civilian infrastructure: Hamas leadership or the Israeli gov't/military, I'd have to say the Israelis because they are the ones dropping bombs.



I like how you think following random international protocols at the cost of thousands of innocent lives is more noble than breaking international protocols to kill a few dozen people who are actually responsible for October 7.

That's absolutely wild.

There is a practical difference between the questionable breaking of international protocols for waging a war that kills civilians who no one cares about and almost every other country has done the same sort of thing somewhere themselves and the breaking of international protocols of going into a third country and killing people there when the third country is vitally important to the worlds energy supply and can increase the price of food the world over by shutting down the pumps, frankly if Hamas was hanging out in Ghana or Uganda Israel would be all over that but they arent, they live in a country the world needs so Israel cant target them there