Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Jbo]

Honestly so frustrating they are not even at the table. Bike lines, libraries and public art, yet this is the hill the taxpayer guardian angels (thank you for saving us from ourselves) and mayor have chosen to die on.

I don’t want owners to get a free ride, but at least get back to the table.

[ZedMan]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Bike lines, libraries and public art, yet this is the hill the taxpayer guardian angels (thank you for saving us from ourselves) and mayor have chosen to die on.

None of those things are for-profit enterprises and, critically, all of them are free for all Calgarians to enjoy. I don't see them as directly comparable at all.

[calgaryblood]

The city has made it clear multiple times they are always willing to negotiate. It is the owners who walked away and it'll be the owners who will have to come back.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by ZedMan

None of those things are for-profit enterprises and all of them are free for all Calgarians to enjoy. I don't see them as directly comparable at all.

How do I benefit from the bike lanes? I don’t cycle. I have not been to a library Since University because you know, the internet, but okay sure. I don’t particularly enjoy any of the ugly public art around town, but sure free for all to enjoy I guess, but a facility I would argue almost every single person in Calgary has used at some point, Flames or otherwise is off limits because it is to be primarily used for a for profit sports club.

Sorry but I don’t whine when projects are funded all the time that I will never, ever receive benefit from l, but something like this does benefit the city in both tangible and intangible ways despite (arguably) being a poor ROI is silly.

[nik-]

oh brother

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

The city has made it clear multiple times they are always willing to negotiate. It is the owners who walked away and it'll be the owners who will have to come back.

Nenshi, like him or not, and Ken King, are both stubborn egos. Two guys that could easily cost this city our team.

Public pressure to get back to the table needs to be done and I think Nenshi at least extending an olive branch would go a long way to show an organization that has spent millions in our community that they are at least valued in the eyes of the city.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by nik-

oh brother

Good grief

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Jbo

How do I benefit from the bike lanes? I don’t cycle. I have not been to a library Since University because you know, the internet, but okay sure. I don’t particularly enjoy any of the ugly public art around town, but sure free for all to enjoy I guess, but a facility I would argue almost every single person in Calgary has used at some point, Flames or otherwise is off limits because it is to be primarily used for a for profit sports club.

Sorry but I don’t whine when projects are funded all the time that I will never, ever receive benefit from l, but something like this does benefit the city in both tangible and intangible ways despite (arguably) being a poor ROI is silly.

I would argue vehemently against that.

The people who use the Saddledome are more likely to be a pretty steady rotation of the same people (season ticket holders) and hockey fans/concert goers who can afford to do it.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I would argue vehemently against that.

The people who use the Saddledome are more likely to be a pretty steady rotation of the same people (season ticket holders) and hockey fans/concert goers who can afford to do it.

I’m not going to change anyone’s opinion, one way or another. I don’t have stats to back it up, but between concerts/Flames/hitmen/roughnecks I’m sure most have at least had an experience with it as a venue.

This article sums it up for me, haven’t seen it the last few pages, but I obviously agree.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3821640/g...ne-in-calgary/

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Nenshi, like him or not, and Ken King, are both stubborn egos. Two guys that could easily cost this city our team.

Public pressure to get back to the table needs to be done and I think Nenshi at least extending an olive branch would go a long way to show an organization that has spent millions in our community that they are at least valued in the eyes of the city.

He has extended an olive branch and said he is always willing to get back to the table and negotiate. I don't know what more he can do that doesn't screw over the tax payers.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Public pressure to get back to the table needs to be done and I think Nenshi at least extending an olive branch would go a long way to show an organization that has spent millions in our community that they are at least valued in the eyes of the city.

what do you consider an "olive branch"? The owners walked away, the city says they'll be welcomed back to the table when they want to sit back down... the standing invite back to the table is an olive branch. Especially after the Flames failed in their rather transparent attempt to strong-arm council through the ballot box. The Flames left the table, the onus is on them to come back to it.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Jbo

I’m not going to change anyone’s opinion, one way or another. I don’t have stats to back it up, but between concerts/Flames/hitmen/roughnecks I’m sure most have at least had an experience with it as a venue.

This article sums it up for me, haven’t seen it the last few pages, but I obviously agree.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3821640/g...ne-in-calgary/

Oh good. I am glad Gord Gillies spoke up. I wonder when Lesley Horton will weigh in.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Nenshi, like him or not, and Ken King, are both stubborn egos. Two guys that could easily cost this city our team.

Public pressure to get back to the table needs to be done and I think Nenshi at least extending an olive branch would go a long way to show an organization that has spent millions in our community that they are at least valued in the eyes of the city.

You're aware that in the last poll about the new arena, almost 50% of people want the city to stand firm on their current offer right? The Flames obviously want no part of said offer, but the plurality of the city wants them to come down off what they want, not for the city to start caving. With the clock now ticking on Bill Smith's donor list becoming public, it's really the Flames who need to be extending olive branches, because that nearly 50% number could easily become nearly 65% or more once we see the donor list.

But if they really are dead set on the Edmonton deal at a minimum (and based off what we've seen reported, they want even more than that), they probably will wait until 2021 and hope Bill Smith Jr or Bill Smith III or whoever wants to hand them an arena gets another crack at becoming mayor.

Also, as always has to be asked, you are cool with the guaranteed 20% at a minimum price increase in the new arena right? Cause if not, ummm, yeah...

[boggledepot]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Nenshi, like him or not, and Ken King, are both stubborn egos. Two guys that could easily cost this city our team.

Public pressure to get back to the table needs to be done and I think Nenshi at least extending an olive branch would go a long way to show an organization that has spent millions in our community that they are at least valued in the eyes of the city.

I am under the impression the differences between the city and the CSEC are more than just building an arena. I think the development of the surrounding area around the arena is huge point of contention for both sides.

[powderjunkie]

I know we've been over this a million times, but after every visit I make to the current 'dome, the more I think there is absolutely no rush to do this. I see no reason we shouldn't try to get 50 years out of the current facility, and another 50 out of the next one.

That said, figure out a ticket tax NOW, and start building at least some funds.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Honestly so frustrating they are not even at the table. Bike lines, libraries and public art, yet this is the hill the taxpayer guardian angels (thank you for saving us from ourselves) and mayor have chosen to die on.

I don’t want owners to get a free ride, but at least get back to the table.

Agree.
And the reality for my family anyways we will never use the bike lines, the downtown library or the South LRT. But we pay our taxes and don't gripe about it because it is progress and needed for the city. But then you have the non sports fans in Calgary that are opposed to a new arena at any cost because they have no interest in sports and even admit they will never go or I don't watch hockey so the city doesn't need to contribute to a new arena. These are the people the media always seems to filter for their on the street bias interviews.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Oh good. I am glad Gord Gillies spoke up. I wonder when Lesley Horton will weigh in.

That was an excellent article. Balanced and didn't hold back

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Jbo

I’m not going to change anyone’s opinion, one way or another. I don’t have stats to back it up, but between concerts/Flames/hitmen/roughnecks I’m sure most have at least had an experience with it as a venue.

This article sums it up for me, haven’t seen it the last few pages, but I obviously agree.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3821640/g...ne-in-calgary/

Gord Gillies - LOL

Look everyone, the breakfast show guy wants a new arena deal.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Agree.
And the reality for my family anyways we will never use the bike lines, the downtown library or the South LRT. But we pay our taxes and don't gripe about it because it is progress and needed for the city. But then you have the non sports fans in Calgary that are opposed to a new arena at any cost because they have no interest in sports and even admit they will never go or I don't watch hockey so the city doesn't need to contribute to a new arena. These are the people the media always seems to filter for their on the street bias interviews.

While some taxpayers are saying 'no public funding', the City is ready to pump at least $185 million into the project, so that argument is completely immaterial.

Perhaps if CSEC would be more honest with Calgarians about their ask, we could have a real negotiation. Every new piece of news about the CSEC position suggests that they are asking for much more than we are discussing (Stampede parking, casino revenues, practice facility, public square, policing, free transit, etc.)

One side is transparent, one side is not. Until the Flames are more 'intellectually honest' with Calgary taxpayers, negotiations will go nowhere.

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I know we've been over this a million times, but after every visit I make to the current 'dome, the more I think there is absolutely no rush to do this. I see no reason we shouldn't try to get 50 years out of the current facility, and another 50 out of the next one.

That said, figure out a ticket tax NOW, and start building at least some funds.

I'm in favor of this, mainly because I have yet to go see a game at the Saddledome, so for my own selfish reasons I hope the Flames stick around a while longer.