Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

So here's my proposal:

To CGY:

- Tampa Bay's 3rd overall pick

To TB:

- Calgary's 2014 1st round pick
- Either the Blues or Penguins pick

Why Tampa may consider this trade:

I think the main reason why Tampa would not consider this trade is because they should be in "Win Now" mode and need cheap help right away. They have 17 players signed, 2 RFAs to sign and only $3.3m in cap space. So they do not have a lot of wiggle room to improve their team from their dismal 3rd last performance even with all their star power.

Either they need to draft someone that can help them win next season or they need to trade their pick to acquire a cheap roster player that will help them win next season. Because of this, I do not see them wanting to trade out of the 3rd overall spot to get a prospect that is less likely to join the team next season in the 20-30th spot and a 2014 draft pick that cannot help the team immediately.

What might get their attention is something like offering them Sven for their 1st straight across. However, I do not believe they need another offensive threat. They are already 5th in the league in goals for but they are 26th in the league for goals against. Maybe acquiring Bishop has already given them the solution to this problem or maybe they need to acquire a Dman more than anything else.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Check out the links I added in my post.

According the author's methodology, he would argue that the Flames are actually overpaying in my proposal (according to recent history of what it takes to move up).

I think it's close to fair, but obviously it would take some tinkering, but it's close IMO.

I would rather look at a proposal that helps the Lightning "Win Now" and help the Flames "Build for the future". Giving up our 2014 first round pick really does not sit well with me. I would avoid that at all costs unless the other team is looking to overpay us.


If the Lightning have given up on Lindback, perhaps we can swap them MacDonald to be a veteran backup to Bishop. Then maybe we offer to eat some of their salary and take Salo off of their hands? If Wideman decides that he doesn't want to be a part of a rebuild then he could be the main part of the trade from the Flames.

To the Lightning:
Wideman (Flames keep $2m of his salary)
MacDonald
Flames 2013 3rd round pick

To the Flames:
Lightning 2013 1st round pick
Salo
Lindback

That gives the Flames a better pick for the future, gives the Lightning an upgrade on D and a better backup with $1M more cap space.

[nightfx]

^

That proposal is so unbelievebly bad for the lightning

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by nightfx

^

That proposal is so unbelievebly bad for the lightning

? Really? Why?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

? Really? Why?

Because Lindback probably has as much trade value if not a bit more than MacDonald, Wideman for Salo is pretty much a wash, so essentially, Tampa is trading their 1st for the Flames 3rd and $2M a year in cap space.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Because Lindback probably has as much trade value if not a bit more than MacDonald, Wideman for Salo is pretty much a wash, so essentially, Tampa is trading their 1st for the Flames 3rd and $2M a year in cap space.

I'm not commenting on the rest of the proposed deal, but Salo for Wideman is a wash?

I don't think so.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'm not commenting on the rest of the proposed deal, but Salo for Wideman is a wash?

I don't think so.

I dunno, just my personal opinion, but if someone were to ask if I would want the Flames to keep Wideman at his current salary or let him walk no strings attached, I'd let him walk. The guy is decent, but not worth $5.25M a year.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have read another scout say the same thing about Monahan in that he doesn't wow you in any area and the sum is better than the parts. That scares me a bit as his ceiling isn't high.

Yes but the reason they say the sum is better is because of his hockey sense.
That's the x-factor that can always make up for other areas.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I dunno, just my personal opinion, but if someone were to ask if I would want the Flames to keep Wideman at his current salary or let him walk no strings attached, I'd let him walk. The guy is decent, but not worth $5.25M a year.

Yeah... I'm cool with that being your opinion about Wideman but the reality of the situation is that Wideman is a significant upgrade on Salo.

Salo is going to be 39 at the start of next season and we all know how durable he is at the best of times. The last time Salo put up more points than Wideman was in the 06-07 season.

Wideman is 8 years younger, can play more minutes per game and is much more durable. In the last 4 seasons Wideman has consistently put up 40-50 points per season and this season he was on pace to do it again.

If the Flames eat $2M of Wideman's contract then the Lightning would be immediately upgrading their roster, help their team "Win Now" and stay within their cap constraints.

It might not be the best offer they can get but I think it is the type of offer that the Lightning should be looking at considering the state of their core.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Because Lindback probably has as much trade value if not a bit more than MacDonald.

I agree that Lindback has a lot more potential than MacDonald but I think this year he proved that he is not ready to carry a team into the playoffs and into cup contention. I am not convinced that Bishop is ready to do that either so maybe a stable backup like MacDonald can help put this team into contention. If you don't agree with that though, I still think this is a fair trade:

To the Lightning:
Wideman (Flames keep $2m of his salary)
Flames 2013 3rd round pick

To the Flames:
Lightning 2013 1st round pick
Salo

[PlayfulGenius]

What about something crazy like giving TBL Wideman and the STL pick? ... And offering to pay for whatever % of Wideman's salary as it takes to get the deal done... Even as high as 100% if that's what it takes.

Alternatively, the Flames could offer Gio and a lesser pick, but same scenario for the cap space

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

What about something crazy like giving TBL Wideman and the STL pick? ... And offering to pay for whatever % of Wideman's salary as it takes to get the deal done... Even as high as 100% if that's what it takes.

Alternatively, the Flames could offer Gio and a lesser pick, but same scenario for the cap space

Most salary a team can eat in a trade is 50%.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Wolven

Yeah... I'm cool with that being your opinion about Wideman but the reality of the situation is that Wideman is a significant upgrade on Salo.

Salo is going to be 39 at the start of next season and we all know how durable he is at the best of times. The last time Salo put up more points than Wideman was in the 06-07 season.

Wideman is 8 years younger, can play more minutes per game and is much more durable. In the last 4 seasons Wideman has consistently put up 40-50 points per season and this season he was on pace to do it again.

If the Flames eat $2M of Wideman's contract then the Lightning would be immediately upgrading their roster, help their team "Win Now" and stay within their cap constraints.

It might not be the best offer they can get but I think it is the type of offer that the Lightning should be looking at considering the state of their core.



I agree that Lindback has a lot more potential than MacDonald but I think this year he proved that he is not ready to carry a team into the playoffs and into cup contention. I am not convinced that Bishop is ready to do that either so maybe a stable backup like MacDonald can help put this team into contention. If you don't agree with that though, I still think this is a fair trade:

To the Lightning:
Wideman (Flames keep $2m of his salary)
Flames 2013 3rd round pick

To the Flames:
Lightning 2013 1st round pick
Salo

And what is the state of their core? Stamkos and Hedman sounds pretty good. Drouin adds a nice piece. Trading that pick for Wideman would be a colossal failure in line with the Mike Milbury school of GMing

[PlayfulGenius]

Gio at half salary and the STL pick for the 3rd overall pick??

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Gio at half salary and the STL pick for the 3rd overall pick??

I do not see the Flames keeping back salary in any deal, let alone a deal that still has many years left on it.

I also don't see the Flames trading guys like Giordano or Glencross unless they've asked to be dealt.

[nik-]

I think it's been demonstrated that the Flames won't be eating salary in trades. Their best opportunity to do so was already passed on.

[Jebus]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

Hypothetical...Islanders (Or some other team) have fallen in love with a player later in the first round and want to grab one of our later round picks. Would you be happy with a Brock Nelson (Or another good prospects that fills a hole in the organization) for one of the Flames later first round picks?

Late to this thread, but yes please. Especially with the 30th. Brock Nelson has everything we need in center depth. Adding him to Monahan/Lindholm/Barkov (hopefully) and a first round D prospect would be all sorts of win in my mind.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Jebus

Late to this thread, but yes please. Especially with the 30th. Brock Nelson has everything we need in center depth. Adding him to Monahan/Lindholm/Barkov (hopefully) and a first round D prospect would be all sorts of win in my mind.

Didn't someone on CP say they had an inside source that Islanders offered Nelson + for JBO, but JBO would not waive?

Nelson had a very good rookie year in the AHL. I am not sure why the Islanders would trade him for the Pitt pick? They have invested time and money into him and it looks like now its going to pay off. They drafted him at 30th, so i would think they would want better than 25th-30th on their investment.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by saillias

And what is the state of their core? Stamkos and Hedman sounds pretty good. Drouin adds a nice piece. Trading that pick for Wideman would be a colossal failure in line with the Mike Milbury school of GMing

I already posted about the state of the Lightning team last page... the Lightning have 17 players out of this year's roster under contract for next year. They have 2 RFAs to re-sign and Pouliot will probably want a raise.

The main thing to note about the Lightning is that they do not need help scoring as they are already 5th in the league for putting pucks in the net. What they need help with is preventing goals (26th in the league in GA).

Drouin would be a fantastic addition to every team in the league but I do not believe another offensive threat will help the Lightning fix their current problem. That was the entire basis of my idea of giving them a roster player that would upgrade their D immediately within their cap constraints.

At the start of next season they will have Salo (39), Ohlund (37), Brewer (34), Carle (29), Hedman (22), and Aulie (24) if they re-sign him. This group is getting very old and I think it is showing.

Swapping Salo and Wideman would immediately upgrade that group and if the Flames eat $8M of that contract I would say that is worth more than just a 1st round pick in compensation. I do not know how other people value draft picks but this salary trading system allows you to put an actual dollar value on a draft pick. Considering that, I probably wouldn't even throw in the third round pick anymore.

[Jebus]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Didn't someone on CP say they had an inside source that Islanders offered Nelson + for JBO, but JBO would not waive?

Nelson had a very good rookie year in the AHL. I am not sure why the Islanders would trade him for the Pitt pick? They have invested time and money into him and it looks like now its going to pay off. They drafted him at 30th, so i would think they would want better than 25th-30th on their investment.

I don't disagree at all. Just saying I support Super-Rye's hypothetical trade should it be offered. Completely agree with your "one in the hand worth more than one in the bush" mentality.

Still, it's the NYI, so who knows what those Wangs will do..

[sureLoss]

McKeen's Hockey Director of Scouting did a 1st round mock draft:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nh...-mock-draft-10

He has the Flames picking Lindholm, Rychel, and Mantha in the 1st round.