Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'd imagine they took that video because they believed she might later have regrets about what she consented to doing, and then claim that she didn't consent.

Turns out they were right.

If you're doing something that makes you think you need to film consent for maybe don't do it...

[traptor]

Yeah i dont really care about these guys losing their playing careers. Its not like their entire lives are ruined.


Being in the NHL is a privileged public facing position.




We will never know the full truth but
At best these guys took advantage of a young girl in a vulnerable position, which although maybe not illegal is terrible behavior.


At worst they committed gang rape, which although they weren't found guilty of is still a possible reality to what occurred.

[sureLoss]

NHLPA response:

The NHL Players’ Association took issue with that approach, saying in its own statement, “Dillon Dube, Cal Foote, Alex Formenton, Carter Hart, and Michael McLeod were acquitted of all charges by Justice Carroccia of the Ontario Superior Court. After missing more than a full season of their respective NHL careers, they should now have the opportunity to return to work. The NHL’s declaration that the players are ‘ineligible’ to play pending its further analysis of the court’s findings is inconsistent with the discipline procedures set forth in the CBA. We are addressing this dispute with the league and will have no further comment at this time.​”

[OminousFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

As a man, would you take advantage of someone sexually in a way you believed they would regret later?

I think in some cases if you're intoxicated you're moral compass changes, and will generally regret it later.

[PaperBagger'14]

That was an all time meltdown, bravo. What ive gathered from it is that sexual assault = bad while regular plain Jane assault = good.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

NHLPA response:

Like I said, if the NHL tells them they can't play the NHLPA will file a grievence. It's their job to do so.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Are we ever going to get to know why the second jury was dismissed? Most lawyers seemed to know that was the point where a conviction was never going to happen.

Thought the first jury was because one of the lawyers said hi to one of them at a cafeteria.

The second one was because a couple of them though two of the lawyers were making fun of them.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It's a sensitive topic for sure and people get heated with their opinions. That does not mean you go fully Looney Tunes though. People who support the players despite what you might think of their actions are not rapist supporters or immoral. Likewise, people who are disappointed in the verdict and believe these guys should never play in the NHL again are not supporting false accusers or not believing in justice. They are not supporting convictions based on accusations. There are a lot of emotions in something like this. Let's respect eachother though.

There’s also a larger group that thinks everyone f’d up that night and in turn partially ruined their lives.

They also wonder when questionmotives went off their meds.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Thought the first jury was because one of the lawyers said hi to one of them at a cafeteria.

The second one was because a couple of them though two of the lawyers were making fun of them.

So if I'm ever accused of a serious crime, I should opt for trial by jury, and then if I don't like the jury I get, just have my lawyers make fun of someone on the jury so I get a trial by judge instead?

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1948525074409292071

A lot of players and teams are going to side with Bettman. The presence of alleged gang rapists is not good for marketing. It will not sit well with players who have wives and kids. It does not sit well with advertisers or image

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

NHLPA response:

I continually find it very difficult to support the NHLPA, or even find find their positions remotely acceptable or agreeable.

There is no value in their position, there's no 'win' to fight for. It isn't about protecting jobs, because if they get their jobs back, others will be displaced (it's a net zero in that regard). All they are accomplishing is to antagonize fans, and place themselves on the wrong side of public opinion.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Judge

Justice Carroccia is also rejecting the Crown’s argument that the players “concocted” a false narrative in their group chat about what happened in McLeod’s hotel room. “I disagree with this characterization,” Carroccia said. “The group chat reflects that the participants were expressing their honest recollections about what happened in room 209, and not concocting a false narrative.”

Would be very curious to know how she comes to this conclusion. I would think it's fully concocted and then used to create an after the fact narrative once there is consensus.

[topfiverecords]

I questionsomeonesmotives but I was certainly entertained.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Is it possible that the complainant was persuaded (rather than coerced) into performing sexual acts she didn't want to do. Ie - so she consented to doing things she didn't want to do.

This is where I think this ended up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Would be very curious to know how she comes to this conclusion. I would think it's fully concocted and then used to create an after the fact narrative once there is consensus.

It's interesting she comes to this conclusion after deciding that the texts which more fully establish it were inadmissible.

[Matty81]

Wow good for the NHL, send a message... feels like morally its a race to the bottom lately, as long as you're not thrown in jail anything else goes didn't expect Bettman to be the one to take any sort of stand

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I continually find it very difficult to support the NHLPA, or even find find their positions remotely acceptable or agreeable.

There is no value in their position, there's no 'win' to fight for. It isn't about protecting jobs, because if they get their jobs back, others will be displaced (it's a net zero in that regard). All they are accomplishing is to antagonize fans, and place themselves on the wrong side of public opinion.

Some of the stuff I've seen people do and unions fight to have them avoid penalties for is beyond disturbing, like turn your stomach bad stuff, they don't care at all about right or wrong. sometimes seems they just want to fight against anything "the employer" does on principle

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's interesting she comes to this conclusion after deciding that the texts which more fully establish it were inadmissible.

Is this grounds for appeal

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I continually find it very difficult to support the NHLPA, or even find find their positions remotely acceptable or agreeable.

There is no value in their position, there's no 'win' to fight for. It isn't about protecting jobs, because if they get their jobs back, others will be displaced (it's a net zero in that regard). All they are accomplishing is to antagonize fans, and place themselves on the wrong side of public opinion.

It's their job though.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by DJones

I think they'll end up back in the league. 2022-2023 Dube looked like he was about to break into the top 6.

Can't imagine its with the Flames. He made them look stupid with the mental health leave nonsense.

Do they want to be booed every time they touch the puck for the rest of their careers? I think not.