2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

In the last 3 seasons Stone's point totals were .80, .81, .76 ppg and he dealt with a pretty significant injury.

You can talk about point totals all you want but Hamilton cheats a lot for his offence and isn't that good defensively.

Don't you think if Hamilton's value was so high, the Bruins would have traded Hamilton for more than some magic beans? I'm sure if they were getting a Stone back they would have jumped on it. There is zero chance Hamilton and Stone have the same value.

And Hamilton isn't even close to matching his 50 point pace from last season. He's on about a 35 point pace.

Yes calgaryblood we know Hamilton is one of your whipping boys.

With that said, he also averages 0.51 ppg over the course of his NHL career, he’s also a career +22 so your argument that he’s not that good defensively doesn’t bare much weight. I’m not saying he’s great defensively, but his combination of strong offence coupled with fairly solid and steady D is something 30 other teams would want (except for maybe Boston).

I don’t think you ship a 24 year old d-man out just because he’s averaging below his career average in points through a mere 16 games this season.

[The Fonz]

Heading into next season, our defensive depth looks like (assuming Fox signs):

Giordano Hamilton
Brodie Hamonic
Kulak Stone
Kylington Andersson
Valimaki Fox

It certainly looks like something's gotta give, but it feels more to me like a trade at the 2018 draft, not a trade at the deadline as we're gearing up for the playoffs. Dealing Hamilton makes a lot of sense for this team.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Yes calgaryblood we know Hamilton is one of your whipping boys.

With that said, he also averages 0.51 ppg over the course of his NHL career, he’s also a career +22 so your argument that he’s not that good defensively doesn’t bare much weight. I’m not saying he’s great defensively, but his combination of strong offence coupled with fairly solid and steady D is something 30 other teams would want (except for maybe Boston).

I don’t think you ship a 24 year old d-man out just because he’s averaging below his career average in points through a mere 16 games this season.

Nobody is suggesting we ship him out because he's averaging less than his career point totals. Try reading before you respond.

And he isn't one of my whipping boys actually he was one of my favorite d men last season after his slow start and has had another bad start and will pick it up again. Try following the thread. This was about someone saying they wouldn't trade Stone for Hamilton. That's just silly.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Heading into next season, our defensive depth looks like (assuming Fox signs):

Giordano Hamilton
Brodie Hamonic
Kulak Stone
Kylington Andersson
Valimaki Fox

It certainly looks like something's gotta give, but it feels more to me like a trade at the 2018 draft, not a trade at the deadline as we're gearing up for the playoffs. Dealing Hamilton makes a lot of sense for this team.

Trading arguably your best offensive d-man and moving up Hamonic and Stone to the top two pairings? Not sure if that makes much sense at all unless someone is willing to pay a heavy price.

[savemedrzaius]

I don't get it. If Hamilton is so good, so young and on such a good contract why do so many people on here want to trade him?

[IgiTang]

Gio Hamilton
Brodie Hamonic
Kulak Stone
Bartkowski Andersson
Wotherspoon Fox
Valimaki
Kylington

IMO you need 5 guys for each side when it comes to defensive depth.
So I feel trading a RHD is not an option for the Flames until they find a replacement to fill the coffers.
On the Left side, they don't need to and could afford to move one or two guys.
Bartkowski isn't going to get you a great return nor will Wotherspoon. But both of them are decent options for injury depth, especially in the playoffs.

[Ryan Coke]

I’m in no rush to get rid of any of the D, but if I was going to trade from strength to upgrade the forward group, it would be Hamilton over Brodie for sure. Hamilton will tend to be a complimentary player IMO, not a guy that carries a top pairing.

Gio and Brodie are the two #1’s on the team, and trading Brodie would leave a far bigger hole than trading Hamilton. Having said that, wth Hamilton’s numbers, he could still get a very big return in a trade.

Brodie often controls the game, Hamilton scores points.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

I don't get it. If Hamilton is so good, so young and on such a good contract why do so many people on here want to trade him?

Because this is a total "what have you done for me lately (i.e TODAY)" crowd. If you're not givin'er 365, you should be traded.

For me, I like the home drafted talent and want them to do what Brodie did for the Flames, stick around. Hamilton has immense value, Id rather get max return now then for nothing later.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

I don't get it. If Hamilton is so good, so young and on such a good contract why do so many people on here want to trade him?

Where did I say I wanted to trade Dougie? I stood up for his value and no part of me wants to see him traded.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

I don't get it. If Hamilton is so good, so young and on such a good contract why do so many people on here want to trade him?

It's a weird CP thing. We didn't draft him, even worse we gave up a 1st round pick for him, so he's consistently underrated on here, while home grown talent like Brodie consistently over rated.

[Yamer]

Bad teams trade key pieces that open a hole on their roster to fill another hole on their roster. Bad teams also make trades for the sake of making trades.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

I don't get it. If Hamilton is so good, so young and on such a good contract why do so many people on here want to trade him?

Are you reading anything? No offense but in the depth of the discussion it's 100% clear why anyone has been suggesting the possibility of trading a good defenseman and it's not because we're stupid and don't want him.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

It's a weird CP thing. We didn't draft him, even worse we gave up a 1st round pick for him, so he's consistently underrated on here, while home grown talent like Brodie consistently over rated.

The more weird thing about CP is you would think we were the Harlem Globe trotters with all our amazing elite untouchables on our team.

Even mention a Flames player in the trade speculation thread and everyone gets offended.

But when these same posters want another good player from another team? Brouwer Kylington and a third should do it!

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I really hope not. That so doesn't fit our build cycle at all. You've got Giordano on the late end and a core that's right in it's prime, and a GM that has gone all in and stated this is our window to contend.

And you want to trade a top four D-man for a draft pick? Even if Tkachuk turns out, we're likely looking at the 2019/20 season before he's starting to hit his potential.

Then a lot of our excellent contracts are already ending or about to end. You can't trade any star/strong roster player for futures at this point.

Well like I said, its with the caveat that the team thinks that Andersson is ready for a top 4 role and he very well may be, hes shown well in every opportunity hes gotten. We’d still be in win now mode while also adding a player that I think would extend our window. And the idea of having both Tkachuk brothers is just delicious. Don’t forget the immediate impact Matthew had, drafting his brother could have a similar immediate impact.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

It's a weird CP thing. We didn't draft him, even worse we gave up a 1st round pick for him, so he's consistently underrated on here, while home grown talent like Brodie consistently over rated.

Home grown has little to do with it. My opinion:

Brodie has one of the best penalty differentials on the team and is constantly saddled by targetted defense partners like Stone, Hamonic, and Wideman. He is arguably our best penalty killer. He is a bit frustrating on the power play and generally isn't much of a point shot threat but has elite skills outside of that, with the ability to make dynamic things happen with his vision and creativity. He has the foot speed to catch Nathan MacKinnon on a breakaway.

Hamilton has one of the worst penalty differentials on the team, and is the beneficiary of the excellent Mark Giordano toning his game down to complement him. He is better than Brodie on the power play and on the points in general, but his style is not very dynamic or creative. He barely kills penalties for us. He has decent foot speed but prefers to defend with his arms rather than his mind, I think of that Corey Perry rush last year in the playoffs.

Overall, Hamilton is an awkward player who does a lot well but his best attributes are very cookie-cutter (point shots). We are better off with him than without as I don't think Hamonic, Andersson, or Stone are even close to his level but I also think he's by a fair margin the worst of our big 3 defensemen, and I thought this last year too when he was on fire. He is a #3/#2 defenseman while the other two have shown a #1 level to me.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Heading into next season, our defensive depth looks like (assuming Fox signs):

Giordano Hamilton
Brodie Hamonic
Kulak Stone
Kylington Andersson
Valimaki Fox

It certainly looks like something's gotta give, but it feels more to me like a trade at the 2018 draft, not a trade at the deadline as we're gearing up for the playoffs. Dealing Hamilton makes a lot of sense for this team.

I do not anticipate Kylington nor Fox being NHL ready heading into next season. Valimaki also could use some AHL time. Andersson admittedly looks ready. I see Stone as the defense man most likely dealt.

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

I don't get it. If Hamilton is so good, so young and on such a good contract why do so many people on here want to trade him?

CalgaryBlood maybe. The rest are just debating value.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

It's a weird CP thing. We didn't draft him, even worse we gave up a 1st round pick for him, so he's consistently underrated on here, while home grown talent like Brodie consistently over rated.

The actual weird CP thing is that you can never have adult discussions about anything without everyone jumping in and getting upset and offended at even the possibility of anything happening.

Everyone gets emotional and doesn't even realize what's being said through their anger.

For example "Maybe we could be like Nashville and trade star for star because we may need to upgrade (NOT NOW!) in the future to take that next step"

returns a bunch of "HAHAHA you want to trade a good defenseman WHY???? Are you stupid?!" "and WHYYYYY do we want to trade such a good defenseman??!!" "You don't trade good players when you have them, why are Flames fans so STUPID this way?".

It's like all reading comprehension and ability to have polite, constructive discussion about things that don't have to actually happen because we're not the GM goes out the window when people's backs get up for no reason.

[Tinordi]

Said this earlier but if Brodie for Marner was actually on the table then Marner would be a Flame. 60 point rookie forward for a talented but flakey D? Yup, no questions who wins that trade.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Well like I said, its with the caveat that the team thinks that Andersson is ready for a top 4 role and he very well may be, hes shown well in every opportunity hes gotten. We’d still be in win now mode while also adding a player that I think would extend our window. And the idea of having both Tkachuk brothers is just delicious. Don’t forget the immediate impact Matthew had, drafting his brother could have a similar immediate impact.

Good post, I'd argue that using a top four dman to acquire Brady Tkachuk would extend our window but it would also make us weaker in the early stages of that window (the next few seasons), and you have to remember that Giordano is our number one D-man but not for long, he'll be falling off at some point, likely when Tkachuk starts becoming a star (if he does at all).

I don't think I could get behind any trade that takes away a star/strong Flames player and returns a future, no matter how good that future is thought to be.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Trading arguably your best offensive d-man and moving up Hamonic and Stone to the top two pairings? Not sure if that makes much sense at all unless someone is willing to pay a heavy price.

The return would be enormous. Hamilton would return nearly any winger in this league, the exception being guys in the tier of Kucherov.

And that plays a role in why it makes sense to trade him - it's not because CP thinks he's a whipping boy and doesn't value him, it's exactly the opposite.

Nashville didn't trade Seth Jones because he was a whipping boy and not valued... they traded from a position of strength, and the return for Seth Jones was Ryan Johansen, their #1C. Was anyone in Nashville pining for Seth Jones, as that team played their way into the SCF last season, Ryan Johansen largely carrying their offense on the way there?