2016 NHL Draft

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I would definitely look at that kind of deal, as well as moving down. When the Leafs trade away their 1st, the pick inevitably turns into a superstar

Sure... but that collides with the narrative that when the Flames trade with the Leafs the Flames invariably get screwed.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah, we really need to get a legit winger to put on Bennett's line. Stretch out the depth chart and make it hard on the opposing coaches.

That's the Flames problem in a nutshell and the reason I hope they take Nylander if Dubois and Tkachuk are gone as this team badly needs skilled wingers. Brown looks okay but picking him means that we will be converting one of these centers to the wing.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't trade it to Toronto for anything short of Marner (which they wouldn't do). You gotta remember Toronto tanked this year... remove the first round pick and you remove the incentive to tank. You'd be making a bet that the Leafs next year +Marner, +healthy JVR (maybe), +Nylander, +Matthews, + any free agents they sign (Stamkos?) will be similarly as bad and that whoever you're able to draft next year will has good as whoever you can draft this year +1 year of experience.

I'll take the bird in the hand.

Bird in the hand is definitely a sane argument, but the risk-vs-reward is tempting.

I'm thinking the prospect would have to be tempting on it's own to satisfy the risk but the payoff if the Leafs are terrible (probable) is amazing. I don't know enough about the Leafs cupboard to speculate about what this trade could be.

They certainly tanked, but who's saying they will be good next year? Who's in net? Is Stamkos that great anymore, or is his MASSIVE upcoming contract going to be a media field day? How Marner, Matthews and the Nylanders play next year is anybody's guess. Their blueline is a huge question mark. There is definitely the makings of a high draft pick with today's lottery system.

However, the Flames showed everyone last year what a talented group of kids on a run can do...

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I would definitely look at that kind of deal, as well as moving down. When the Leafs trade away their 1st, the pick inevitably turns into a superstar (we hope Hamilton will too).

Right? Their traded 1st have great track records!

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's the Flames problem in a nutshell and the reason I hope they take Nylander if Dubois and Tkachuk are gone as this team badly needs skilled wingers. Brown looks okay but picking him means that we will be converting one of these centers to the wing.

wouldn't converting one of the skilled centers to wing not also solve the issue of needing more skilled wingers?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

"Juolevi's a vanilla prospect who does a lot of things well"

That would be my thought on Juolevi as well. I think Sergachyev is a clear cut above in terms of ceiling, and my preference is always to draft for ceiling not floor.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Really? We are going to take some unknown yahoo of HF boards opinion as gospel? Where are these brutal games Juolevi has had? For the Knights? Nope, I am a Knights season ticket holder and follow them as much as the Flames, never saw that. At the WJC? He was dominant in that tournament, a tournament Chychrun didn't even make the cut for. The OHL playoffs? He has 14 points in in 17 games and is a +15. To me it isn't even close between the two.

Well that unknown yahoo runs the draft analyst draft rankings that somebody used in their consensus draft rankings.

http://www.thedraftanalyst.com

If it was a complete random I wouldn't have linked it. The guy obviously scouts pretty hard. He is a huge Chychrun fan, he's had him top 3 for most of the year. I certainly wouldn't suggest taking his opinion as gospel, I don't even suggest doing that with my favorite rankings like Redline and Craig Button. Interesting to note though that Redline has Chychrun 7th and Juolevi not in their top 10 and as of two months ago said that Chychrun was in their elite 2nd grouping with Pulju and Tkachuk. Things have changed, he's dropped behind Bean and Dubois for them now.

Doesn't mean he's right but his opinion is a little more well grounded in actual viewings of these players than your average message board fan. It's just an opinion you can take it or leave it. But I guarantee you that some teams have Chychrun ranked highest while other teams have Juolevi highest. One of the NHL scouts that Mackenzie talked to had Chychrun at 4. Another had Juolevi at 5.

Who do the Flames like better between the two? It's anyone's guess.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Split98

I wonder how much Toronto would be willing to give up to take Nylander at #6.

I would be pretty intrigued if their 2017 1st + prospect was offered. There's a good chance Toronto repeats a bottom finish, and this could be a good lottery pick.

Of course, if Tkachuk or Dubois are still available the deal is off. They have too much value to take a risk. But everything else I could part with at the chance of a high draft the next year.

Zero interest in that idea. Super dangerous to assume they'll pick that high again and I don't know if the top end of next years draft will be as attractive. Plus you're setting the development and impact of that prospect back by a year.

I wouldn't underestimate how quickly a Lamoreillo/Babcock tandem can turn a franchise around. We're not talking the incompetent Oilers here, Babcock had one of the weakest looking rosters in the NHL as competitive down the stretch as any of the bottom feeders. In fact they drastically outperformed the Oilers and Canucks down the stretch. Babcock is one of the best in the league. They have money to play with, will be looking to improve and are adding a franchise player this draft. They have top prospects ready to step in.

You draft the pick now. We need the player contributing sooner rather than later and IMO it's likely that the Leafs pick next year could be worse than 6th.

[SuperMatt18]

Eastern conference is pretty weak too at the bottom end of things, so a quick turnaround for the Leafs is not out of the question.

If they wanted to give us Mitch Marner for the 6th overall pick though I would be fine with that.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That would be my thought on Juolevi as well. I think Sergachyev is a clear cut above in terms of ceiling, and my preference is always to draft for ceiling not floor.

And how do you know the limits of either, exactly?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by saXon

And how do you know the limits of either, exactly?

You obviously don't know. No one could have predicted Giordano would be where he is now.

But you could still differentiate between the ceiling of Kylington and Wotherspoon based on the skills / tools at their disposal.

Sergachyev and Juolevi seem to be on the same plane in terms of IQ and poise, but Sergachyev's toolset looks way, way more enticing.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You obviously don't know. No one could have predicted Giordano would be where he is now.

But you could still differentiate between the ceiling of Kylington and Wotherspoon based on the skills / tools at their disposal.

Sergachyev and Juolevi seem to be on the same plane in terms of IQ and poise, but Sergachyev's toolset looks way, way more enticing.

And yet many scouts have Juolevi as the top d-man in this draft. The ceilings are high for both players.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And yet many scouts...

You post this in response to everything.
No one is oblivious to many scouts and their opinions.
That doesn't mean the rest of us can't have our opinions.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You post this in response to everything.
No one is oblivious to many scouts and their opinions.
That doesn't mean the rest of us can't have our opinions.

Obviously everyone can have their own opinion. It's when you start to think your opinion is more valid than real NHL scouts who've seen these players live, for longer and with more viewings when things start to get questionable. It is arrogant to think your opinion trumps the experts. You definitely are right on the edge of this issue.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Obviously everyone can have their own opinion. It's when you start to think your opinion is more valid than real NHL scouts who've seen these players live, for longer and with more viewings when things start to get questionable. It is arrogant to think your opinion trumps the experts. You definitely are right on the edge of this issue.

but what about oiler scouts?

Every scout in the world can say what they want but it's ultimately the GM's (or owner's son in the case of the oilers) decision who they think is the best option for their team.

I still think the Flames get #3 overall.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Poe969

but what about oiler scouts?

Every scout in the world can say what they want but it's ultimately the GM's (or owner's son in the case of the oilers) decision who they think is the best option for their team.

Lol, good point. Luckily our GM has a scouting background so if he overrules our scouts it will be with a wealth of expertise and experience behind him.

[puckedoff]

Are the top 3 from this draft the only 'NHL ready' players or is there an expectation that a few other guys might be able to step in right away?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Are the top 3 from this draft the only 'NHL ready' players or is there an expectation that a few other guys might be able to step in right away?

Well I'd argue that Dubois/Tkachuk have a chance to step in for a few reasons:

1) Both have NHL frames already
2) Both can or do play wing and wing is the easiest position to break in as in the NHL
3) Both play an NHL style power forward style already

It's no slam dunk that either guy would play but I think they'd be competing for roles.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Are the top 3 from this draft the only 'NHL ready' players or is there an expectation that a few other guys might be able to step in right away?

Good question. For me I feel it's very subjective. The right player drafted by the right team can make a team right out of the gate. To a lesser extent look at Pittsburgh and Daniel Sprong. Made the team, played minimally and got sent back to the Q.

I think it's safe to say given the right circumstances there's about 5 or 6 more players or maybe even a greater number of players that can make a team out of camp outside of the top 3. Just depends on the circumstances. Whether they made the team based on the lack of depth on the main roster or straight up earn it is another argument.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

wouldn't converting one of the skilled centers to wing not also solve the issue of needing more skilled wingers?

Sure these guys as transition as Bennett started the season on the wing but Brown is supposedly a set up man so ideally you would like to keep him at center.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I know the Stars game will be front and centre for most people tonight but in case you want to see a wealth of prospects for the draft tonight we have London vs Niagara game 4 on SN360 at 5pm. London is going for the sweep of the OHL Finals and the Memorial Cup berth. Games 5 and 6 should they be required will also be shown on SN360. Chance to see:

#7 Matt Tkachuk (ranked 2nd in NA by CSS)
#4 Olli Juolevi (ranked 5th in NA by CSS)
#49 Max Jones (ranked 14th in NA by CSS)
#98 Victor Mete (ranked 74th in NA by CSS)
#63 Cliff Pu (ranked 75th in NA by CSS)