Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Fuzz]

Carbon tax calculator:
http://carboncalc.pythonanywhere.com/
Note this doesn't include any external costs.

Your carbon tax rebate is: $1,158.00

Your carbon tax paid is: $544.93

Thanks Justin!

[madmike]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

There is a lot of strategic voting in the GTA. If people think the Cons have a chance and they push too far right - they'll coalesce around one party. That's the Doug Ford secret - he doesn't get people riled up against him - so they just vote for whoever and he sneaks up the right and wins.

Ford has the benefit of running against a crippled provincial Liberal Party that was in power way too long and people are still bitter about the money wasted over the power plant scandal. But you’re right - he’s governed mostly as a moderate Conservative. He’s likely upset the right wing of his own party more than any other constituency in the province, aside from teachers.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Carbon tax calculator:
http://carboncalc.pythonanywhere.com/
Note this doesn't include any external costs.

Your carbon tax rebate is: $1,158.00

Your carbon tax paid is: $544.93

Thanks Justin!

The calculator omits costs passed on to consumers though, the costs are far higher when you include the indirect costs. Obviously difficult to calculate but the fact that everything you buy and every activity you do and everything you pay costs more cannot be ignored when weighing costs vs rebate. So not false information, just incomplete information, so totally useless.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

The calculator omits costs passed on to consumers though, the costs are far higher when you include the indirect costs. Obviously difficult to calculate but the fact that everything you buy and every activity you do and everything you pay costs more cannot be ignored when weighing costs vs rebate. So not false information, just incomplete information, and you should be smart enough to know this.

No ####. That's why I said "Note this doesn't include any external costs."

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No ####. That's why I said "Note this doesn't include any external costs."

I apologize and corrected it immediately, but your "Thanks Justin!" is being a little naïve. If you know that it is inaccurate, why would you even post it though?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No ####. That's why I said "Note this doesn't include any external costs."

Honestly curious. What is the point of the calculator if it doesn’t include any external costs?

[Fuzz]

Because it can show you what your direct costs are. You can see how much your driving or heating affects it. I thought it would be a thing of interest for some. The "Thanks Justin" was obviously a joke. Man, this place some days...

[Fuzz]

https://sencanada.ca/content/sen/com...ollow-up_e.pdf

Here, this has the indirect costs for a $50/tonne carbon tax in Alberta at $260 per household, so you can add that in and now it's magically a useful tool. I'm at $805 now. Still leaves me ahead, so thanks again, Justin!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://sencanada.ca/content/sen/com...ollow-up_e.pdf

Here, this has the indirect costs for a $50/tonne carbon tax in Alberta at $260 per household, so you can add that in and now it's magically a useful tool. I'm at $805 now. Still leaves me ahead, so thanks again, Justin!

Fuzz, that’s great and all, but I’m going to need you to hand in an essay (let’s say 1000 words) on whether this new “Thanks Justin” is a joke. If so, please explore why you would make such an insensitive joke you know will trigger the libs cons. If not, please explore how dare you you lib loving commie.

Thank you in advance. On my desk by Monday.

[Fuzz]

We'll have to see about that. I was about to have ChatGPT write it for me, but their servers are overloaded right now.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Fuzz, that’s great and all, but I’m going to need you to hand in an essay (let’s say 1000 words) on whether this new “Thanks Justin” is a joke. If so, please explore why you would make such an insensitive joke you know will trigger the libs cons. If not, please explore how dare you you lib loving commie.

Thank you in advance. On my desk by Monday.

Damn you Pepsi. I just spent the last 2 minutes planning out how one would write this. I was thinking starting with an examination of the origins of "Thanks Obama", moving into how memes have perpetuated the joke with the "stick through your own spokes" joke, a short discussion on how Canada political discourse is a copy of the US with a 2-3 year delay, finishing with how the "I did this" Biden stickers are an offshoot.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Honestly curious. What is the point of the calculator if it doesn’t include any external costs?

Direct costs are calculable, indirect are not. Another way of putting it is accounting costs versus economic costs.

Essentially, how do we know how to attribute an increase in product costs to carbon tax versus standard inflation and/or corporate greed?

Let's say an apple pre-Carbox tax cost $1.00. When you add in the additional costs to grow and bring the apple to market, let's say the apple now costs $1.05. That would vary depending on the product and organe might go from $1.00 to $1.10 due to increased distance traveled. But then, you have grocers now saying the apple costs $1.25 due to carbon tax then reporting a 20% increase in profits with people going "Thanks Trudeau, now my apples are $1.25, how am I supposed to feed my family?" While the Westons and Sobeys are swimming in their Scrooge McDuck vaults.

That is to say, it's complicated. But at least calculating direct costs shows a baseline, and can clearly demonstrate a negative (if it were negative that is).

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think attributing the entire cost of the current food increase to the carbon tax is misleading. The government reports on the carbon tax address

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6625612

The above article links to the PBO report and several other studies on economic drag from carbon tax. The PBO report is on the higher side for the impacts of the carbon tax relative to other reports so I think it can be taken as a reasonable source for discussion

Under this report it indicates the net Carbon cost including economic drag which includes lower salaries and numbers of jobs. It puts the full impact for the average Albertan at 2232 with a $170 carbon tax. The Carbom tax increases by $15 next year or 9% of the total. Which would suggest a maximum of $232 of cost increases per household for next years carbon tax. This includes Everything. So we can clearly see that the carbon tax is not what is driving food price increases over the last 2 years.

https://distribution-a61727465666163...98d1eb359ea5c7

The 10 posts proceeding mine were all relating to the discussion of how corporations are gouging customers because 'our costs are so high.' Guess what is part of those costs right now?

To break it down into simpler terms, if you are a corporation and you heat with propane or natural gas, there is a carbon tax. And as with any other added cost the last two years, corporations have just turned around and used it as an excuse to gouge customers.

Therefore I think the carbon tax on food production should be repealed until food prices stabilize.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Azure

The 10 posts proceeding mine were all relating to the discussion of how corporations are gouging customers because 'our costs are so high.' Guess what is part of those costs right now?

To break it down into simpler terms, if you are a corporation and you heat with propane or natural gas, there is a carbon tax. And as with any other added cost the last two years, corporations have just turned around and used it as an excuse to gouge customers.

Therefore I think the carbon tax on food production should be repealed until food prices stabilize.

Have you ever asked yourself why inflation is higher in a number of jurisdictions that don’t have a carbon tax?

[Locke]

Just a heads up, I posted this in my power ring thread, but I'll post it here where it might get more attention.

News release
December 12, 2022 Ottawa, Ontario Canada Revenue Agency

For many Canadians, rising inflation and the high cost of living have made it even more challenging to find a safe and affordable place to call home. Renter households are four times more likely to experience core housing needs than homeowners. That is why the Government of Canada has taken concrete action to help renters who need it most.

Today, the Honourable Diane Lebouthillier, Minister of National Revenue, and the Honourable Ahmed Hussen, Minister of Housing and Diversity and Inclusion, are taking action and announcing that applications for the new one-time top-up to the Canada Housing Benefit are now open. This benefit is a one-time payment of $500 to eligible lower-income renters experiencing housing affordability challenges.

Canadians must meet all the following conditions to be eligible for the new benefit:

have filed a 2021 tax return;
be at least 15 years of age as of December 1, 2022;
be a resident in Canada in 2022 for tax purposes;
have an adjusted family net income of $20,000 or less for individuals, or $35,000 or less for families;
have paid at least 30% of their 2021 adjusted family net income on rent for their principal residence in the 2022 calendar year; and
be able to provide their 2022 address(es) and landlord’s contact information.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...-now-open.html

Applications can be made on your CRA MyAccount.

[Locke]

I think a big demographic they're going to see is kids who have moved away from home to go to school.

They'll likely be a large group within that income demographic.

So if you have kids who have moved away to go to University or work part-time think about telling them to apply.

[peter12]

The carbon tax is good because it is essentially making oil and gas companies and consumers pay for the massive externalities of pumping carbon in the atmosphere. I know a lot of people on CP don't think that's a big deal, but actually global warming is bad and we should be disincentivised from contributing to it.

[TheIronMaiden]

In b4 "but China".

[peter12]

As western countries do more and more to decouple economic growth from increased emissions, any step forward is not only good for the planet, but good for the economy.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Azure

The 10 posts proceeding mine were all relating to the discussion of how corporations are gouging customers because 'our costs are so high.' Guess what is part of those costs right now?

To break it down into simpler terms, if you are a corporation and you heat with propane or natural gas, there is a carbon tax. And as with any other added cost the last two years, corporations have just turned around and used it as an excuse to gouge customers.

Therefore I think the carbon tax on food production should be repealed until food prices stabilize.

Your policy relies on corporations not being greedy and competition working. So if it is just an ‘excuse’ to raise prices and not a reason to raise prices then we would just see the “excuse” change to labour cost, tax, or real estate.

So either the savings would be marginal if businesses chose to pass through the savings due to competition or they would be 0. If as you state carbon taxes are just an excuse.

Instead if you want to deal with cost of living pressures target policies at those in need and increase taxation on those with excess.