Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

If Johnny walks, the key will be what Treliving is going to do

Coming back with somewhat the same team without Johnny would be a disaster

Either get a star replacement or complete rebuild is a must

I imagine he will go hard after Kadri or maybe even Forseberg who has also been silent on the contract front with Nashville.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

If Johnny walks, the key will be what Treliving is going to do

Coming back with somewhat the same team without Johnny would be a disaster

Either get a star replacement or complete rebuild is a must

Forsberg would be my bet, especially if he has any strong relationships with the Swedes we already have on the team, which he probably does.

[really?]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I imagine he will go hard after Kadri or maybe even Forseberg who has also been silent on the contract front with Nashville.

Probably true, but when a team commits similar resources to lesser players there is no reason to expect anything beyond lesser results. Imagine if they were to go down this path, and they experience statistical retraction next year. Good luck resigning Tkachuk or Lindholm after that.

The team is in a corner with Gaudreau, (and soon to be Tkachuk) and retooling with a wave of lesser talent likely results in years of mediocrity. Like it or not, if the Flames don't resign Gaudreau they are facing a rebuild. The choice will be either admit that, and experience some short-term pain, or allow the mediocrity to commence and face this pain down the road. Hope to be wrong, but there is little to suggest that a team with an elite player will suddenly find itself once that player is gone.

[Erick Estrada]

I think rebuild is the furthest thing from the minds of management, ownership, or coaches. Like it or not the Flames will likely be very aggressive in free agency if Gaudreau doesn’t re-sign.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

If Johnny does sign elsewhere, I hope Treliving doesn't feel the need to pay up for Forsberg or Kadri. I don't think either are good long term choices.

Count me in the camp that says Johnny stays. I don't see what's compelling about signing in Philadelphia or New Jersey. He'd basically be signing up to lose games, in exchange for being able to occasionally drive by a corner store where he used to buy Skittles with his allowance.

[really?]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think rebuild is the furthest thing from the minds of management, ownership, or coaches. Like it or not the Flames will likely be very aggressive in free agency if Gaudreau doesn’t re-sign.

I agree, but this is how the Flames have ended up in a scenario with no real playoff success since 2004. There was a forced "rebuild" that resulted in the Flames owning relatively high picks that were converted into Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk, but the fact that they didn't commit to a rebuild left them short on assets to effectively bolster the ranks.

If Gaudreau chooses to sign elsewhere I agree that the team becomes aggressive/desperate, and desperation has a bad look. It doesn't attract winners....

[dammage79]

Dunno about the appeal to Philly from a hockey standpoint for Gaudreau. But it's home. And that can take up a large percentage of the decision making process regardless of what's on the ice.

NJ though? If I were Johnny I'd be looking at the Center depth there along with guys like Holtz and be pretty convinced that team was going places real soon.

NJ would be quite appealing IMO.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by really?

I agree, but this is how the Flames have ended up in a scenario with no real playoff success since 2004. There was a forced "rebuild" that resulted in the Flames owning relatively high picks that were converted into Monahan, Bennett and Tkachuk, but the fact that they didn't commit to a rebuild left them short on assets to effectively bolster the ranks.

If Gaudreau chooses to sign elsewhere I agree that the team becomes aggressive/desperate, and desperation has a bad look. It doesn't attract winners....

You think “winners” are keen to sign with teams rebuilding
I would be good with a rebuild but those calling for it are smacking their head against a wall
It ain’t happening
At least for 2-3 years
I see it being a potential at that point

[activeStick]

Meh. I don't see any problems with dissentowner, a die-hard Flames fan who also happens to be what appears to be an optimist, sharing his views and debating those who are not as optimistic about the situation or those who are chronically Debbie Downers. Also nothing wrong with those who are complete opposites of dissentowner voicing their opinion though I would say I align closer to dissentowner than the chronically negative posters. The thing is nobody is going to change their outlook on their sports team which in my opinion, likely also aligns closely with their outlook on things/events in their own lives outside of sports. It's how people are and nothing anybody says on CP will change it.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Dunno about the appeal to Philly from a hockey standpoint for Gaudreau. But it's home. And that can take up a large percentage of the decision making process regardless of what's on the ice.

NJ though? If I were Johnny I'd be looking at the Center depth there along with guys like Holtz and be pretty convinced that team was going places real soon.

NJ would be quite appealing IMO.

I don’t think he would give the Flyers a discount but if they give him a better offer, I don’t see why not

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Even with a perfect off season (unlikely) I have a hard time believing the Flames will be able to replicate last years regular season success. How many players had career years? 5? 6? 7?

And they are going to lose some key depth pieces who not only could play solid Sutter hockey, but also brought the size, toughness and physicality that the top of the roster needed around to do what they did.

If Johnny stays, great. But even if he does I kind of hope they sell high on Tkachuk to fill a key hole on another part of the roster. Two wingers making 8 figure AAV's is not a recipe for success in my opinion.

All 6 D men had career years on top of the top line. And Mangi. I suppose Vladar and Marky too. So more like 11 or 12 if there were others.

[really?]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You think “winners” are keen to sign with teams rebuilding
I would be good with a rebuild but those calling for it are smacking their head against a wall
It ain’t happening
At least for 2-3 years
I see it being a potential at that point

I hear you, but at that point it's forced upon the team and is not likely to occur on the team's terms. You called it, feels like banging a head into a wall, but depending on your team of choice, that can be part of being a fan.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

All 6 D men had career years on top of the top line. And Mangi. I suppose Vladar and Marky too. So more like 11 or 12 if there were others.

Yeah, tough to replicate that amazing feat.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, tough to replicate that amazing feat.

Flames issues have always been consistency year to year. Even if production dipped below career year numbers, if they treaded water and hovered just below that even they'd still be division favorites.
.but that's all moot because the only guarantee we have right now is that the roster will not be close to looking the same next year as this one. In fact I suspect after they sort out the top two FAs on their checklist, the ripple effect is going to drastically alter the team one way or the other.

Last years Flames were a one off and will not be around for another go.


We are gonna be missing two or more players from the main core group.

EDIt: should kept it shorter and sweeter than that. I mean the Flames weren't ever going replicate last season. Not with everything going on in the offseason.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dammage79

All 6 D men had career years on top of the top line. And Mangi. I suppose Vladar and Marky too. So more like 11 or 12 if there were others.

Sure but some players had “career years” as in “the best so far in their career” because they are still young and improving. They won’t be career years as in “the best in their whole career including going forward”. I think Andersson, Hanifin, Kylington will all improve. Vladar of course had a career year because he’s a rookie. Mangiapane likely has upward growth in him. Maybe Tkachuk does as well if he improves his skating.

As for the others, I don’t know that this was a defining year for Tanev. He is who is is IMO. Same with Gudbranson.

It may well be peak Gaudreau and Lindholm and Zadorov.

[dino7c]

Flames don't have to win the division though...they need 96 points and to be playing their best hockey in the playoffs. It's also impossible to predict until we see the roster...even then.

Remember the predictions from last summer?

"Seattle will be better"
Lol CP sometimes

[dino7c]

Mangi had a career first half...less goals and more consistent would be an improvement IMO

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames don't have to win the division though...they need 96 points and to be playing their best hockey in the playoffs. It's also impossible to predict until we see the roster...even then.

Remember the predictions from last summer?

"Seattle will be better"
Lol CP sometimes

This appears to be the Tampa Bay model (although everyone always acknowledged they were a top team anyway). After crushing the league but getting bounced by Columbus, they changed their approach to the regular season versus the POs.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames don't have to win the division though...they need 96 points and to be playing their best hockey in the playoffs. It's also impossible to predict until we see the roster...even then.

This is true. They had 111 points and the 2nd best goal differential in the league last season.

They have room to back slide a bit and still be a very good team.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This is true. They had 111 points and the 2nd best goal differential in the league last season.

They have room to back slide a bit and still be a very good team.

The interesting bit will be seeing if Sutter can stop the one good season one bad season trend that we keep seeing with this roster. He talked about it all year that this team needs to consistently be a playoff team to start getting respect in the league. I would wager that it is a focus on the team in the summer regardless of the contracts that are signed. That assumes they can sign the core.



That being said, I would generally be against any big free agent signings if Johnny leaves except for Forsberg. I think that he could be a good fit with Sutter and the sum of the parts may be better (see our defence this year without Gio).



Otherwise, I would be okay with the team taking a step backwards but having players here that want to be here. Perhaps that results in trading away Matthew and Andrew for prospects and picks and focusing on the next crop of players if the team is really bad. Perhaps they can get those two signed longer term and build around them.



I'm just not part of the crowd that says this team must draft in the top three to win nor do I think they need to tear the thing down to the studs to win. It's too simple for me. In my head, the team should do their best with the opportunities presented to get and retain good players.