Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[Acey]

"Being in a position of power or representing the university" is a pretty trash criterion to determine if they should face discipline or not, and thankfully most schools, and certainly not employers, are abiding by that.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Acey

"Being in a position of power or representing the university" is a pretty trash criterion to determine if they should face discipline or not, and thankfully most schools, and certainly not employers, are abiding by that.

Why should the university discipline them when they don’t represent the university and didn’t use the university to promote the message?

Employers are completely different. You represent that employee to your customers. Even a private university you could make a similar argument. A state funded public institution the argument of damaged reputation does not matter.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why should the university discipline them when they don’t represent the university and didn’t use the university to promote the message?

Employers are completely different. You represent that employee to your customers.

That's an interesting take for sure. So the kids in Georgia who got expelled for making incredibly racist TikToks should not have been expelled? Is there a certain threshold of racism that would get you on board with them being expelled? Yikes.

I am a representative of the school I attend. Every school on on the planet has a code of conduct that says something to this effect.

If kids are allowed to just have free reign and be white supremacists as long as they're not heads of a club and don't spew their hate on school pamphlets, then I'm switching schools. You're free to continue attending.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Acey

That's an interesting take for sure. So the kids in Georgia who got expelled for making incredibly racist TikToks should not have been expelled? Is there a certain threshold of racism that would get you on board with them being expelled? Yikes.

I am a representative of the school I attend. I'd argue that it's exactly the same and not different at all.

Not aware of the Georgia Tik Toks. There is a line where I would agree with you. Directly advocating for violence against people would certainly cross it for me.

Freedom of speech shouldn’t be silenced by government institutions whereas a private institution certainly can create consequences for that speech. When a government institution creates consequences for speech it effectively bans it. So it that case the speech needs to be far more egregious for the same consequence.

The question for you is the same though at what threshold on the spectrum of ignorance to racism to inciting hate driven violence do you expel someone.

[Acey]

I don't know what the public vs private school thing has to do with anything, but nobody is silencing anybody's Twitter, he's free to say what he wants. The kids on the football team who don't want to play until they expel him are free to do that. The Georgia kids are free to be racist against black people. They just have to find a new school to attend. No biggie. Everyone is free to do as they choose and that's the beauty of America, they just have to face consequences for these actions.

[JohnnyB]

I would disagree with expelling students for those types of actions, but on the basis that the university should take more responsibility for the comprehensive education of their students and that simply expelling a student doesn't serve the university's broader role in developing young people who are good representatives of the institution. When things like that come up, as they inevitably will when dealing with young people, the university should make its position clear and engage the student in a way that brings them around to an understanding that will result in them becoming a better person.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Acey

I don't know what the public vs private school thing has to do with anything, but nobody is silencing anybody's Twitter, he's free to say what he wants. The kids on the football team who don't want to play until they expel him are free to do that. The Georgia kids are free to be racist against black people. They just have to find a new school to attend. No biggie. Everyone is free to do as they choose and that's the beauty of America, they just have to face consequences for these actions.

I noticed you didn’t answer the question of where the line of consequence should be between ignorance vs racism just that this incident would cross it.

When the state creates consequences for speech it is silencing speech so entirely different than a private enterprise doing the same.

Anyway The guy who tweeted this is running a boarder line white supremicist organization so certainly not sympathetic or worthy of a defense and if he does get expelled it really doesn’t bother me and this thread should be focused are more important things so I will stop with this post. There are better people and places around which to have the free speech on a Campus discussion.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by GGG

I noticed you didn’t answer the question of where the line of consequence should be between ignorance vs racism just that this incident would cross it.

Your're asking me what makes this statement racist and not ignorant?

Yeah I guess I'm not saying go expel every kid who has said something racist, your hallways will get pretty empty at that point. I just highly disagree with the notion that, particularly for the institutions of large American universities, that a student does not represent school if not in some authoritative position. I already forget the kid's name and I just read it... but I definitely remember the school. Secondarily, the idea that "it's as public university so a damaged reputation doesn't matter." Does that mean their rationale should be "we won't lose money over this so it's fine to have racists on campus?" Again, I'm switching schools.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Yeah that isn’t the easiest situation. I mean, kids are kinda dumb. I was hella dumb when I was college age (still kinda am).

School banishment and social ostracizing does what to fix the problem? Maybe there is more behind the ‘joke’ the kid wrote, but if there wasn’t doesn’t this just pigeon hole a developing person into a hate group? It increases the problem in my opinion.

[Derek Sutton]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wash...outputType=amp

Serious reaction from the student athletes. Big push for a policy implementation, then the fine task of monitoring 25,000 students social media accounts in determining what’s racist what’s hate, and what’s disrespectful and where the line gets drawn. Who gets to decide whats disrespectful, and to whom? People are often sorry what they ask for and judging free speech is likely the slipperiest slope of them all.

Expulsion of this student would set a new benchmark for Out Of Court Settlement so will not happen.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Acey

Your're asking me what makes this statement racist and not ignorant?

Yeah I guess I'm not saying go expel every kid who has said something racist, your hallways will get pretty empty at that point. I just highly disagree with the notion that, particularly for the institutions of large American universities, that a student does not represent school if not in some authoritative position. I already forget the kid's name and I just read it... but I definitely remember the school. Secondarily, the idea that "it's as public university so a damaged reputation doesn't matter." Does that mean their rationale should be "we won't lose money over this so it's fine to have racists on campus?" Again, I'm switching schools.

I wasn’t asking you to define why this statement is racist more at what point does any statement result in being grounds for expulsion which you addressed above.

I can certainly see your argument that a student does represent the school even if not in a position of authority.. My statement that the damaged reputation doesn’t matter Should have been more clear. I don’t think a public institution can used a damaged reputation as a reason for the state to silence speech. ( In the case of expulsion in my opinion that is silencing rather than a consequence of speech). It has to be the speech is dangerous and offensive enough that it is no longer protected.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

It is not society's responsibility to teach racists to care about other people. I was not given an education about things like the Trail of Tears, Jim Crow laws, Redlining, Black Wall Street, etc. American History classes, by and large, whitewash all of that away.

I taught myself. I read, I watched documentaries, I listened to the voices of those who do know what they're talking about, both the kind ones and the angry ones. And that was my responsibility to learn those things, it's my responsibility to continue learning. It is not the responsibility of Black people, of Native Americans, of Latinos, etc, to do the emotional labor of teaching me their history and why I should care about them.

This is where it's up to you to calmly explain to your father, your sister, those you insist you're more aware than, why these things are important. Explain why BLM isn't a slight on others but a cry for change and for equity. Because no, people who already have racist views are unlikely to take kindly to even the nicest Black person telling them they're wrong.

But they might listen to you. So if you know more and they don't, it's your responsibility to raise their awareness.

And this is their defence. “Their lives don’t even matter to each other, that’s the real problem”. And they’re not entirely wrong...

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abc7chic...-shot/6277011/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcc...2292837/%3famp

[Acey]

I remember one of the main ones that started this was a white girl in a TikTok saying directly to a black girl, "I prefer to be this colour than yours, so get back to the cotton fields and go make me another T-shirt".

As far as when the line is crossed, when it's directly stated to another student maybe that is the line. This video is like the gold standard for expulsion, right? I've heard all of these insults multiple times at school - good thing TikTok wasn't around then because the insults were a lot more original. As I recall, this girl had already graduated and her high school couldn't do anything but passed it along to local authorities.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1252022257683247104

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

And this is their defence. “Their lives don’t even matter to each other, that’s the real problem”. And they’re not entirely wrong...

I feel like this bull#### line of thinking has been addressed already. Not all black people are on the front lines of the gang war on the south side of Chicago. I have the right to not be harassed by the police and profiled regardless of how many people were shot today in Chicago.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

And this is their defence. “Their lives don’t even matter to each other, that’s the real problem”. And they’re not entirely wrong...

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/abc7chic...-shot/6277011/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nbcc...2292837/%3famp

And then you counter with statistics about how underserved Black communities are re: education and social services. Poverty leads to more lawlessness. Show evidence that Black men are disproportionately punished for crimes that an affluent white person might get a slap on the wrist for (i.e. Marijuana possession), and how having a criminal record (even for a minor, nonviolent offense) affects his ability to find good employment; something that will already be harder for him to find because of inherent racial bias in hiring practices.

Ask them how they would feel if their community had the lion's share of its social services away, their children's schools defunded and closed, if the police watched them constantly for any sign of conduct bordering on illegal, had their opportunities for upward growth squashed on every institutional level.

Wouldn't you see where that would lead to internal conflict?

Stop giving in to BS arguments that have nothing to do with the conversion at hand. BLM is about racial profiling by law enforcement, unfair and racially biased sentencing. It's about the fact that a Black kid from a "bad" neighborhood has almost zero chances at getting out of that life, while a white kid from a rich suburban family might get caught with cocaine and he probably wouldn't even lose his scholarship. It's about predatory lending practices that disproportionately keep Black people in debt, but also make it harder for them to upgrade to better neighborhoods and thus better school districts.

It's cyclical, its an institutional problem. Even in predominantly white neighborhoods, those with higher poverty also have higher crime. So when we as a society consistently, over generations, keep much of an entire race in poverty, when we either refuse to give them resources or we take them away, yes, the result is always going to be more crime.

The answer is to give those communities a way out of the negative cycle they're in.

I grew up with the same kind of somewhat subtly racist views your family has. It's my responsibility and yours to break that cycle and inform those around us.

[Scorch]

St. Louis mayor doxxing protestors

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/st...s3X?li=BBnb7Kz



Here’s a follow up on her justifying her doxxing

https://twitter.com/user/status/1276888501154467845

[dammage79]

Ooooo. Where's the popcorn!

[MarchHare]

Last August, police in Aurora, Colorado murdered 23-year old Elijah McClain, a young man who had committed no crime other than walking while black. In Aurora today, citizens hosted a vigil for Elijah in a public park. This event was the very definition of peaceful assembly. You can't even call it a protest. People were just quietly sitting on the grass listening to a group of violinists performing.

Then the Sturmtruppen arrived for no reason.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1277126019246260224

https://twitter.com/user/status/1277275436725055489

Will any of the bootlickers in this thread offer a defense of the Aurora PD's actions here?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Last August, police in Aurora, Colorado murdered 23-year old Elijah McClain, a young man who had committed no crime other than walking while black. In Aurora today, citizens hosted a vigil for Elijah in a public park. This event was the very definition of peaceful assembly. You can't even call it a protest. People were just quietly sitting on the grass listening to a group of violinists performing.

Then the Sturmtruppen arrived for no reason.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1277126019246260224

https://twitter.com/user/status/1277275436725055489

Will any of the bootlickers in this thread offer a defense of the Aurora PD's actions here?

Watching them march in like that scares the #### out of me. What is this ####? The hunger games?

Honestly, clips like this should scare everyone. Unacceptable.

Edit: after reading more about this, I understand that there may have been a small group of trouble makers in the back (where they head to). This still doesn’t change my opinion.

How to handle this large gathering:
- have a couple of well spoken, well respected higher ups engage the organizers early on.
- have those same representatives of the police force there early in the day, interacting with the organizers as they set up. Helping.
- make it clear they are there for the protests protection (as they should be).
- discuss the possibility of a few riot starters trying to make trouble, and how to handle that together.

Done. Peaceful protest. At least a small notch of respect within the community earned.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Will any of the bootlickers in this thread offer a defense of the Aurora PD's actions here?

I defend the police more than most but there is no reasonable defence for that reprehensible behaviour.