During the Potato Famine of Ireland in the 1840s and 50s, England had placed a blockade on the island of Ireland and refused to let aid come in (many historians now consider it to be an act of genocide). It was a actually a Turkish Sultan that sent food aid to Ireland as they ignored the British blockade… almost led to a war between the Ottoman Empire and England.
I don’t know… I thought some people might find that interesting.
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To summarize:
- Captain of the ship tried to avoid confrontation with Israeli forces and tried to stear away.
- Israeli Helicopter started firing rubber coated bullets, sound grenades and tear gas at ship
- 5 minutes later, live rounds were fired into crowd from helicopter indiscriminately.
- 2 people shot dead with bullet wounds at the top of their head
- passengers ripped parts of the ship apart and started beating soldiers when they boarded ship
- fighting intensified when 3 israeli soldiers were taken hostage
- Captain ordered the soldiers to be freed in order to end confrontation peacefully
- All passengers were arrested, treated poorly (not allowed to take bathroom breaks for several hours and beaten) and asked to sign declaration that they entered Israel illegally
- 2 people shot dead with bullet wounds at the top of their head
I think if this is true (obviously needs proper investigation), it would not look good on the military. Bullet holes on the top of the head tells you where the shots were fired from.
What an obvious lie. So they fired into the crowd indiscriminately, and THEN descended one-by-one with paintball guns. Yeah, that's likely. Liar, liar, pants (or explosive stuffed underwear) on fire.
I think if this is true (obviously needs proper investigation), it would not look good on the military. Bullet holes on the top of the head tells you where the shots were fired from.
Or their heads were down because they were beating soldiers on the ground who weren't fighting back, which the video clearly shows.
The story is totally inconsistent. First the troops were firing up on entering the boat, then they were firing from the other boats, and now they are firing from the copters.
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What an obvious lie. So they fired into the crowd indiscriminately, and THEN descended one-by-one with paintball guns. Yeah, that's likely. Liar, liar, pants (or explosive stuffed underwear) on fire.
Yeah, a journalist who eye witnessed what happened, is lying
There had to be a reason for the protesters to be that angry and it isn't the first time Israel would have been accused of shooting indiscriminately from their helicopters.
I think if video came out of them shooting from the helicopter you would still blindly defend Israel.
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Yeah, a journalist who eye witnessed what happened, is lying
There had to be a reason for the protesters to be that angry and it isn't the first time Israel would have been accused of shooting indiscriminately from their helicopters.
I think if video came out of them shooting from the helicopter you would still blindly defend Israel.
In the chaos of the deck, the adrenaline, the noise, I would doubt any eyewitnesses report, especially of something that is suspect to begin with.
Yeah, a journalist who eye witnessed what happened, is lying
There had to be a reason for the protesters to be that angry and it isn't the first time Israel would have been accused of shooting indiscriminately from their helicopters.
I think if video came out of them shooting from the helicopter you would still blindly defend Israel.
I think there's always two sides to a story. It's funny how most people blindly defend only one side without hearing what the other side has to say. Yes, if the protesters started beating soldiers randomly, then it would have been stupid and they would have deserved to have gotten shot. However, does anyone think someone can really be that stupid? Maybe, just maybe there's some truth to the reporter's story and the passengers felt threatened by the israeli soldiers and tried to beat them to death to save their lives.
The conflicting story from the other side, taken from Ynet
Quote:
As we know, the Mavi Marmara was another story altogether. Revealed in cabinet briefings and reported in Israel Today on Wednesday: the large boat contained between 50-100 passengers who had apparently been recruited and put on the boat by the IHH organization — which financed and organized the flotilla — with orders to violently attack the IDF soldiers expected to board.
“They came ready for battle. They came to kill and planned violence against the soldiers ahead of time” a military official told the cabinet.
These men were organized and well-trained, with a clear chain of command — there were leaders, deputies, and footsoldiers, divided up into specific groups, located in pre-designated locations on the top deck of the boat waiting for the soldiers to board.
They were fully equipped for battle. A search of the ship found weaponry — knives, axes, metal poles — as well as protective gear, bulletproof vests, masks, and night vision goggles. When they were apprehended, none of them carried any form of identification, and most of them had thousands of dollars in their pockets.
The story of the battle on board the boat became clearer as the soldiers were debriefed by the IDF and spoke to the media from their hospital beds — without being identified by name — in Israel Today.
According to plan, the soldiers had lowered themselves down by two ropes from a helicopter. The first two soldiers were immediately attacked and their pistols stolen before they could fire. The pistols were later recovered in the hands of two of the dead casualties of the fight, with their magazines empty.
Soon the “activists” tied one of the ropes to a flagpole on the ship. Fearing that the tethering of the helicopter to the ship would cause the helicopter to crash, one of the soldiers cut the rope. This slowed the flow of reinforcements onto the boat, as the following soldiers could only come down one-by-one on a single rope. In addition to the battering with knives and axes, stun grenades and a Molotov cocktail were thrown.
The soldiers told of the experience of standing surrounded by tens of attackers with knives and axes. According to Sergeant “A”:
Hundreds of angry people were laying in wait for us with weapons. They were attacking and hitting us with axes and knives and pipes. I saw one of my soldiers surrounded by tens of people hitting him non-stop. While we were prepared for violent resistance, we had not anticipated it on this scale. The clear goal of the activists on the ship was to kill us. Most of them were coming at us with knives and axes in their hands.
Sergeant “R” recounted:
Tens of them surrounded us with knives and axes. One of them approached me with his knife drawn, and after I understood that my life was in danger I drew my weapon and I fired once. To my surprise, at least 20 people dropped on me and threw me from the deck.
I stood up and felt a sharp pain in my stomach. I saw that a knife was stuck in my lower abdomen and I pulled it out. I then managed to get myself to one of the lower decks of the boat, where there were already a group of solders who were in control of that part of the ship and the passengers.
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The conflicting story from the other side, taken from Ynet
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Seems a bit far fetched. If these people were prepared to attack Israeli soldiers before they left to sea, I would assume they would have carried much more sophisticated weapons than wooden poles, axes and knives.
Seems a bit far fetched. If these people were prepared to attack Israeli soldiers before they left to sea, I would assume they would have carried much more sophisticated weapons than wooden poles, axes and knives.
If they had bought guns with them, it would have blown the whole public relations bonanza of the flotilla. Remember the interviews that were posted earlier where at least one member talked about achieving martyrdom.
If they had bought guns with them, then Israel would have been completely exhonerated in this mess, as they could have pointed out that the flotilla was indeed smuggling weapons.
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Yeah, a journalist who eye witnessed what happened, is lying
At least some of the protestors are lying. This is the first account of fire from the helicopter. Sounds to me like people who don't really know what happened are filling in the gaps.
Also, what are this "journalists" credentials. Does he have a track record of balanced reporting? Who does he even work for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckluck
There had to be a reason for the protesters to be that angry and it isn't the first time Israel would have been accused of shooting indiscriminately from their helicopters.
They were angry because they were members of a terrorist organizatino who had spent the last few hours singing songs about slaughtering Jews.
If the attack was spontaneous following Israeli aggression as you claim, how did they get so many weapons so quickly? How were the knives, metal bars, clubs etc distributed to the passengers and then have the passengers form that mob. This items were clearly gathered beforehand and given to the mob prior to Israeli soldiers landing.
Also the typical response from a crowd that has just had bullets fired indiscriminately into it is to disperse. It doesn't matter how brave or justified you feel, at least some of the crowd will run for cover. Instead we see the crowd ammassing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckluck
I think if video came out of them shooting from the helicopter you would still blindly defend Israel.
The video who have to show that the firing happened before the violence for me to change my opinion. There is nothing inherently wrong with firing from the copter. Especially when the troops you have already sent down have been attacked.
If the army fired from the copter (which hasn't been proven yet) to save the life of one of their own soldiers, who was being beaten on the ground by this crowd, then this is an acceptable action.
If the army was firing automatic weapons onto random people's heads, you would also expect there to be massive pools of blood all over the deck of the ship. The kind of blood you would slip and fall in. The amount of blood that would be all over everyone around them. Just two people with gaping headwounds like that would produce litres of blood.
In the video showing the soldiers being beaten, I don't see any blood on the mob rushing to the scene. I don't see anyone slipping on blood.
The only blood in any of the videos is relatively small amounts on stretchers and other parts of the ship.
Also where are the bodies on the deck of the ship as the Israeli soldiers land? The Israeli soldiers just decided to kill randoms, then sit back wait for the bodies to be cleaned up, then raid without live fire?
Yeah I'm sure they were ready for battle. Is that why they started pulling metal bars off the hand rails instead of pulling out guns?
Like I said in a earlier post - the truth will never come out.
I don't think it matters when the planned the attack. The attack may not have been planned before leaving. It may have been planned during the hate filled sing along. At which point, they gathered everything they could find that could be used as a weapon. Then they attacked the soldiers the moment they set foot on the boat.
The bit about commanders and deputies seems a little far fetched IMO. There could very well have been people shouting orders at others, that's natural.
Yeah, a journalist who eye witnessed what happened, is lying
There had to be a reason for the protesters to be that angry and it isn't the first time Israel would have been accused of shooting indiscriminately from their helicopters.
I think if video came out of them shooting from the helicopter you would still blindly defend Israel.
Believe me, I wouldn't have shed a tear if the Israelis went about this like Soviets in Afghanistan (or Americans in Vietnam), but this is an obvious lie. Nobody in their right mind would machine gun the ship and then descend down by rope with non-lethal weapons. That simply is impossible.
If a one state Israel occurs the demographics in the region will eventually favour Muslims. Israel will not allow a situation in which jews become a minority. It is in their interests to have a 2 state solution so that they can perserve the jewish minority.
Why?
There are many Muslims living in Israel that are quite loyal to the country of Israel.
I think there's always two sides to a story. It's funny how most people blindly defend only one side without hearing what the other side has to say. Yes, if the protesters started beating soldiers randomly, then it would have been stupid and they would have deserved to have gotten shot. However, does anyone think someone can really be that stupid? Maybe, just maybe there's some truth to the reporter's story and the passengers felt threatened by the israeli soldiers and tried to beat them to death to save their lives.
Can they really be that stupid? Are you kidding me?
The whole thing was a 'stupid' setup. By a bunch of morons whose only intent was to make Israel look bad.
They were given another option. A peaceful resolution. And they choose to ignore it, completely ignoring the consequences of their actions. Even AFTER they were told that Israel wouldn't let them break the blockade.
So again you ask, were they stupid?
Is that a rhetorical question? Because everyone knows the people on the ship were stupid.
Yeah, a journalist who eye witnessed what happened, is lying
There had to be a reason for the protesters to be that angry and it isn't the first time Israel would have been accused of shooting indiscriminately from their helicopters.
I think if video came out of them shooting from the helicopter you would still blindly defend Israel.
Please explain why only 1 ship was 'fired' upon, which apparently resulted in this violence, while the other 5 were boarded peacefully.
Oh right you can't. Because the journalist is lying.
His story is inconsistent within itself, and no video evidence has shown that the helicopters were firing 'live bullets' onto the ship before they boarded.
But there are videos showing the protesters being violent before the ship was boarded.
